Greek love (citations)

Greek love (en français « L’amour grec »), publié en 1964, est le principal ouvrage pédérastique publié par Walter H. Breen sous le pseudonyme “J. Z. Eglinton”. Les citations ci-après en sont extraites.

La première partie de ce traité, Theory and practice (« Théorie et pratique »), se compose de huit chapitres principaux :

Objectives (« Objectifs »)

Some common objections answered (« Réponses à quelques objections communes »)

Greek love as a social problem (« L’amour grec en tant que problème social »)

Greek love as a solution to a social problem (« L’amour grec comme réponse à un problème social »)

The theory and practice of love (« La théorie et la pratique de l’amour »)

Sexual aspects of Greek love (« Aspects sexuels de l’amour grec »)

Some uncomplicated Greek love affairs (« Quelques affaires d’amour grec sans complications »)

Some difficult Greek love affairs (« Quelques affaires d’amour grec difficiles »)

Citations

Objectives

Greek love is the love between an adult man (or, sometimes, an older adolescent) and a younger boy, generally one from about twelve to sixteen or seventeen.
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L’amour grec est l’amour entre un homme adulte (ou, parfois, un adolescent plus âgé) et un garçon plus jeune, qui a généralement de douze à seize ou dix-sept ans.

• J. Z. Eglinton, Greek love, New York, Oliver Layton Press, 1964, p. 3 (trad. BoyWiki) (voir la fiche de référence)

Despite many attempts by apologists for homosexual acts between adults to justify them by appealing to the example of the ancient Greeks, the adult homosexuality of today has little in common with Greek attitudes or practices.
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En dépit de nombreuses tentatives des défenseurs des actes homosexuels entre adultes pour les justifier en faisant appel à l’exemple des anciens Grecs, l’homosexualité adulte d’aujourd’hui a peu de choses en commun avec les attitudes ou les pratiques grecques.

• J. Z. Eglinton, Greek love, New York, Oliver Layton Press, 1964, p. 3 (trad. BoyWiki) (voir la fiche de référence)

Greek love is as widespread as mankind; it is as valid a manifestation of love as is any other, no more and no less, with motivations much the same, and consequences to the participants much the same as in any other; it is easily understandable in terms of a general theory of love; it is not automatically decisive in determining the direction of either partner’s later sexual orientation; it has persisted in one form or another, publicly acknowledged or concealed, for thousands of years, despite shifting cultural attitudes by turns favorable, indifferent, blind or hostile; the rises and falls in its comprehension, appreciation and practice—and therefore to some extent the effects on its recipients—have coincided fairly closely with the vicissitudes of classical education; the attitudes and literary manifestations connected with it have varied pretty much in the same way as the corresponding attitudes and literary manifestations connected with other forms of love; where it has flourished, it has generally done so in periods in which heterosexual love and the social roles of women were alike favored; where it has been left free of officious interference by moralistic old women or police, it has frequently had specific ethical and educational consequences which an unbiased observer would have to call good; and its suppression in this culture—a suppression far more thorough and taboo-ridden than that for long visited upon homosexual acts between consenting adults—has had most unfortunate consequences.
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L’amour grec est aussi répandu que l’humanité ; c’est une manifestation d’amour tout aussi valide qu’une autre, avec des motivations et des conséquences pour les parties très semblables à tout autre ; on peut facilement le comprendre dans le cadre d’une théorie générale de l’amour ; il ne détermine pas de façon automatique l’orientation sexuelle ultérieure de l’un ou l’autre partenaire ; il s’est maintenu sous une forme ou sous une autre, publiquement reconnu ou dissimulé, pendant des milliers d’années, en dépit d’attitudes culturelles changeantes qui lui étaient tour à tour favorables, indifférentes, aveugles ou hostiles ; les hauts et les bas de sa compréhension, de son appréciation et de sa pratique — et donc, dans une certaine mesure, les effets sur ses bénéficiaires —, ont coïncidé de façon assez étroite avec les aléas de l’éducation classique ; les attitudes et les manifestations littéraires le concernant ont varié à peu près de la même façon que les attitudes et les manifestations littéraires similaires par rapport aux autres formes d’amour ; là où il a prospéré, c’était en général à des époques où l’amour hétérosexuel et le rôle des femmes dans la société étaient également favorisés ; là où il est resté libre de toute interférence officieuse de vieilles femmes moralisatrices ou de la police, il a eu souvent des conséquences éthiques et éducatives qu’un observateur objectif ne peut qualifier que de bonnes ; et sa suppression dans la civilisation actuelle — suppression beaucoup plus profonde et empreinte de tabous que celle qui a longtemps touché les actes homosexuels entre adultes consentants — a eu des conséquences très néfastes.

• J. Z. Eglinton, Greek love, New York, Oliver Layton Press, 1964, p. 3-4 (trad. BoyWiki) (voir la fiche de référence)

Some common objections answered

The love relationship between adult and boy, then, is necessarily different from what it would be among people of the same age and equal in other respects. It has to take into consideration the immaturity, pliability and changing nature of the boy. In short, like parental love, like the love of an older brother for a younger, like the love of a mature man for his young, inexperienced or less-educated bride, it is an asymmetrical relationship. The man has to be a guide-philosopher-friend and counselor to the boy, someone whom the boy can look up to and trust, someone who will answer his questions, someone in whom the boy can confide without fear of rebuff, ridicule or report back to parents, someone from whom the boy can learn things he needs to know but which he wouldn’t learn at school or from other boys his own age or (most likely) even from his parents, someone prepared to watch the boy start to grow away from initial dependence and towards girls. This is the way the Greeks saw the relationship. Where sex occurred at all, it was only a part of the much larger complex of shared confidences, shared experiences, love given and received; and so it is in some relationships even today.
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• J. Z. Eglinton, Greek love, New York, Oliver Layton Press, 1964, p. 8 (trad. BoyWiki) (voir la fiche de référence)

The relationship between man and boy can be one of genuine love; it can be handled responsibly, whether or not sex enters into it, the man realizing that his boyfriend is growing up and will before too many years be ready to start a family of his own.
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La relation entre un homme et un garçon peut être faite d’amour authentique ; elle peut vraiment être conduite d’une manière responsable, que le sexe y prenne part ou non, l’homme comprenant que son jeune ami grandit et qu’il sera, dans quelques années, en mesure de créer sa propre famille.

• J. Z. Eglinton, Greek love, New York, Oliver Layton Press, 1964, p. 9 (trad. BoyWiki) (voir la fiche de référence)

Perhaps I am being overly idealistic, but I tend to think that given relaxation of the taboos and legal pressures, history would repeat itself. Insofar as in previous epochs Greek love has been a force for good, presumably it would often be such in the future.
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Peut-être suis-je trop idéaliste, mais j’ai tendance à penser qu’en cas de diminution des tabous et des pressions judiciaires, l’histoire se répèterait. De même qu’à des époques antérieures l’amour grec a été une force bénéfique, sans doute le serait-il encore souvent dans le futur.

• J. Z. Eglinton, Greek love, New York, Oliver Layton Press, 1964, p. 12 (trad. BoyWiki) (voir la fiche de référence)

With a relaxation of taboos and legal pressures, open discussion and knowledge would replace ignorance, and the boys themselves would be better able to decide whether to go after—or accept the interest of—this man or that. (For such desires aren’t exclusively one-sided; modern psychiatric evidence indicates that the boys themselves often make the first move.)
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Si les tabous et les pressions judiciaires diminuaient, le débat ouvert et la connaissance remplaceraient l’ignorance, et les garçons eux-mêmes seraient mieux capables de décider s’ils recherchent tel ou tel homme — ou s’ils acceptent son intérêt pour eux. (Car de tels désirs ne viennent pas toujours du même côté ; la psychiatrie moderne a prouvé que les garçons eux-mêmes prennent souvent l’initiative.)

• J. Z. Eglinton, Greek love, New York, Oliver Layton Press, 1964, p. 12 (trad. BoyWiki) (voir la fiche de référence)

Sexual attraction provided a man with an incentive for fulfilling his educational role, for sending time imparting wisdom and right attitudes to some teen-ager ripe to profit from them.
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• J. Z. Eglinton, Greek love, New York, Oliver Layton Press, 1964, p. 15 (trad. BoyWiki) (voir la fiche de référence)

As a guide-philosopher-friend-counselor, a parent is not in a suitable position; the needed adult has to be someone whom the boy can trust, who will not inform on him, who does not automatically take the role of an authority figure.
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• J. Z. Eglinton, Greek love, New York, Oliver Layton Press, 1964, p. 17 (trad. BoyWiki) (voir la fiche de référence)

It is the fear of sexual contact, and still worse, the fear of being thought queer, that have tended to minimize intelligent guidance of young people by interested adults.
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• J. Z. Eglinton, Greek love, New York, Oliver Layton Press, 1964, p. 18 (trad. BoyWiki) (voir la fiche de référence)

It’s been well known to psychiatrists for many years—and to boarding school headmasters for generations before that—that very often it’s the younger boy who makes the first affectionate gesture, or even the first overtly sexual gesture, to the older boy or man.
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• J. Z. Eglinton, Greek love, New York, Oliver Layton Press, 1964, p. 18 (trad. BoyWiki) (voir la fiche de référence)

I think that a man who can gain sexual satisfaction only from boys is unduly limited and presumably sick, but that a man who has been able to establish satisfying relationships with women does not automatically become sick because he also allows a friendship with some teen-age boy to develop an overt sexual aspect.
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• J. Z. Eglinton, Greek love, New York, Oliver Layton Press, 1964, p. 21 (trad. BoyWiki) (voir la fiche de référence)

Some persons arrested as child-molesters have perhaps done nothing more than display nonsexual physical affection to a child, perhaps responding to some spontaneous gesture from the child; but such is people’s horror of the rare child-seeking sadist that nobody makes much effort to find out exactly what did happen.
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• J. Z. Eglinton, Greek love, New York, Oliver Layton Press, 1964, p. 24 (trad. BoyWiki) (voir la fiche de référence)

In Greek love a man is looking for a genuine relationship of affection with a boy old enough to respond in kind, old enough to know what he is doing. That they have to be secretive and even conspiratorial about it in some situations reflects not anything intrinsically bad about the relationship, but only a realistic appraisal of the dangers of police attention.
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• J. Z. Eglinton, Greek love, New York, Oliver Layton Press, 1964, p. 24 (trad. BoyWiki) (voir la fiche de référence)

I think it is better in every way to judge each case on its own merits. In the situation of Greek love, instead of running to the police and jailing the man and putting the boy into a “reform” school where he is going to learn to hate the law and all that it stands for, I would judge it by the quality of the relationship and the effect on the boy. If he seems to be benefitting by it, in school, in relationships with parents, teachers and contemporaries, and if he is developing healthy attitudes, I see no benefit whatever accruing from tearing the relationship asunder and bringing in police and reform-school personnel and ruining the boy’s chances at college and decent employment. In fact I can see where such drastic procedures could well induce guilt feelings and confusions on the boy’s part that were never earlier manifest and might never have arisen. And on the other hand, if the boy seems to be deteriorating during the relationship, the proper person to call in is a psychiatrist. It may well be that the man involved, rather than the relationship itself, is at fault; it may be that the boy has guilt feelings or uncertainty over his masculinity (as do many who are not involved in Greek love relationships); or even that other factors—in school or at home—are contributing to the deterioration. I would certainly not jump to the conclusion that the boy is automatically being sidetracked from the path to heterosexuality; and if it turns out that he is in fact homosexually oriented, the thing to do is not to fix blame but to see if the aversion to the opposite sex can be diminished or perhaps cured by suitable counseling or other experience. I think this way of handling the various problems that arise from disclosure of a Greek love situation is far more realistic than the usual panic-born action of bringing in the police.
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• J. Z. Eglinton, Greek love, New York, Oliver Layton Press, 1964, p. 29 (trad. BoyWiki) (voir la fiche de référence)

“Perversion” is a hostile name for any sexual practice the conservative elements in society disapprove of.
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• J. Z. Eglinton, Greek love, New York, Oliver Layton Press, 1964, p. 30 (trad. BoyWiki) (voir la fiche de référence)

As long as a boy continues to trust his guide-philosopher-friend, the developing love relationship will minimize the possibility of later guilt feelings. I have the strong impression that guilt feelings come less from the sex play itself than from the parental and school attitudes towards sex in general.
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• J. Z. Eglinton, Greek love, New York, Oliver Layton Press, 1964, p. 30-31 (trad. BoyWiki) (voir la fiche de référence)

There are some principles so sacred that I will not relinquish them, and correspondingly, I will not refrain from teaching them to my kid (or my pupil) just because the beliefs might make things difficult for him in some social strata.
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• J. Z. Eglinton, Greek love, New York, Oliver Layton Press, 1964, p. 37 (trad. BoyWiki) (voir la fiche de référence)

Greek love as a social problem

The common conservative attitude to Greek love—as to homosexual behavior in general—is a mixture of acceptance of the sexual status quo, confusion of Greek love with several other sexual deviations, and rationalizations of pre-existing aversion.
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• J. Z. Eglinton, Greek love, New York, Oliver Layton Press, 1964, p. 41 (trad. BoyWiki) (voir la fiche de référence)

Acceptance of the sexual status quo brings up the question of whether sexual deviation is a problem because it is illegal, or whether it became illegal because it was a problem.
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• J. Z. Eglinton, Greek love, New York, Oliver Layton Press, 1964, p. 41 (trad. BoyWiki) (voir la fiche de référence)

It is significant that in the Latin countries, sexual laws are less restrictive, less ferocious in language and penalties, and less all-inclusive in the categories of punishable acts, than in the Nordic countries in which puritanical Protestant theocracies had some role in preserving medieval laws. It is also significant that the age of consent for males and females is lower in these Latin countries than elsewhere, and that prosecutions are far more rare, public opinion—which pretty faithfully mirrors the legal codes—being far more relaxed and tolerant.
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• J. Z. Eglinton, Greek love, New York, Oliver Layton Press, 1964, p. 45 (trad. BoyWiki) (voir la fiche de référence)

Voir aussi

Bibliographie

Édition utilisée

• Greek love / J. Z. Eglinton ; postscript by Dr. Albert Ellis. – New York : Oliver Layton Press, 1964. – [8]-504 p. ; 24 × 16 cm. (en)
  Notes et bibliographie p. 446-477. Glossaire p. 478-489. Index des noms p. 490-494. Index général p. 495-504. – Second tirage 1965.

Articles connexes

• Greek love (J. Z. Eglinton)
• Walter H. Breen