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| ==Subpages== | | ==Subpages== |
| *[[Talk:Etenne/subpage1]] | | *[[Talk:Etenne/subpage1]] |
| | *[[Talk:Etenne/subpage2]] |
| | *[[BoyWiki:Etenne's Palaestra]] |
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| '''Please ask yourself before hitting the post button''' | | '''Please ask yourself before hitting the post button''' |
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| # '''Dose this have a cultural or historical relavance to boylove?''' | | # '''Dose this have a cultural or historical [[BoyWiki:Relevance policy|relavance to boylove]]?''' |
| # '''By posting this are you going to make Etenne lose sleep?''' | | # '''By posting this are you going to make Etenne lose sleep?''' |
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| | == To all BoyWiki users:Naming == |
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| | The convention for naming pages is that articles should be singular whereas categories should be plural. |
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| == Scribunto ==
| | *Names of topics and topic categories should be singular, normally corresponding to the name of a BoyWiki. article. Examples: "Law" (which represents a body of knowledge), "France", "George W. Bush". |
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| Is there any way we can get [[mediawikiwiki:Extension:Scribunto|Scribunto]] installed? It would come in handy for templates that invoke modules. Thanks, [[User:Lysander|Lysander]] ([[User talk:Lysander|talk]]) 10:41, 18 March 2015 (UTC)
| | *Names of set categories should be plural. Examples: "Writers", "Villages in Poland". |
| : Like I told User4, right now no. All the Free Spirits techs. are working on another large project and nothing is going to get done until that is finished. From their perspective, BoyWiki is updated and secure and is not a priority right now and they have other more pressing matters to devote their limited time to fixing. --[[User:Etenne|Etenne]] ([[User talk:Etenne|talk]]) 10:47, 18 March 2015 (UTC)
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| ::Can we get it put on a list of tasks that we need done when they get the time? [[User:Lysander|Lysander]] ([[User talk:Lysander|talk]]) 18:45, 18 March 2015 (UTC)
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| ::: That depends, first I would have to run it past the BoyWiki Council, then if they agree, I can ask the tech. and if he agrees then yes. --[[User:Etenne|Etenne]] ([[User talk:Etenne|talk]]) 18:52, 18 March 2015 (UTC)
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| ::::Cool, thanks. Scribunto has come a long way since its first release, I think; I just installed it on a MediaWiki 24.1 installation yesterday and it worked immediately. [[User:Lysander|Lysander]] ([[User talk:Lysander|talk]]) 18:55, 18 March 2015 (UTC)
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| ::::: The first question I am going to get asked is, does it present any security issues? Could it be used nefariously? --[[User:Etenne|Etenne]] ([[User talk:Etenne|talk]]) 18:58, 18 March 2015 (UTC)
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| ::::::Well, that's what I was thinking too, but I don't know the answer. It's used on Wikimedia sites, including the English Wikipedia, so presumably they've found a way to lock it down and make it secure. Maybe it's secure right out of the box; that would be my guess. There are a lot of eyeballs looking at any code that's to be deployed on WMF sites. Also, even for extensions that aren't for deployment on WMF sites, the MediaWiki.org community [[mediawikiwiki:Security for developers|is pretty security-conscious]], and won't hesitate to [https://www.mediawiki.org/w/index.php?title=Extension%3AGoToShell&diff=836514&oldid=836124 tag] extensions with a big loud warning if they are found or even suspected to have any possible security risks. Rest assured that Scribunto has no Microsoft logo.
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| ::::::More and more Wikipedia templates require Scribunto in order to work. For example, {{w|Template:Essay}}, {{w|Template:Archives}}, and {{w|Template:Infobox court case}}. I'd like to be able to copy over and use these templates. [[User:Lysander|Lysander]] ([[User talk:Lysander|talk]]) 19:05, 18 March 2015 (UTC)
| | However, I am willing to hear counter arguments to this practice or suggestions before deciding what the policy should be --[[User:Etenne|Etenne]] ([[User talk:Etenne|talk]]) 13:17, 25 March 2015 (UTC) |
| ::::::: I asked about adding the category tree, that's the best I can do for today. I just got out of the hospital and I am not at all well so bare with me.--[[User:Etenne|Etenne]] ([[User talk:Etenne|talk]]) 22:46, 20 March 2015 (UTC)
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| ::::::::Oh! Take your rest, and get well soon. Thanks for making the heroic effort to be here at all. Your consistency is probably why BoyWiki still exists. [[User:Lysander|Lysander]] ([[User talk:Lysander|talk]]) 22:53, 20 March 2015 (UTC)
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| :::::: I posted your request to the BoyWiki council to get their input. --[[User:Etenne|Etenne]] ([[User talk:Etenne|talk]]) 22:59, 20 March 2015 (UTC)
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| :::::::Okay, thanks. [[User:Lysander|Lysander]] ([[User talk:Lysander|talk]]) 01:00, 21 March 2015 (UTC)
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| ===Response from the Wiki council===
| | :Just yesterday I noticed that Wikipedia has categories with a singular title, e.g. [[wikipedia:Category:Vagina]]. Also, there are some plural article titles, e.g.[[wikipedia:Jews]]. [[User:Lysander|Lysander]] ([[User talk:Lysander|talk]]) 15:13, 25 March 2015 (UTC) |
| {{Quotation|"This extension suggests adding a programming language (lua) to the wiki, accessible by all users. Nothing less!
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| Some people criticize us already for using javascript as security risk, that is a wiki native language...
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| And how many are already using wikitext efficiently?
| | ::You can't figure out what those two (obvious, at least, to me) errors are due to? Uh... You certainly make up in glibness what you lack in perspicacity. [[User:User4|User4]] ([[User talk:User4|talk]]) 02:37, 26 March 2015 (UTC) |
| | | :::Enlighten me. [[User:Lysander|Lysander]] ([[User talk:Lysander|talk]]) 03:16, 26 March 2015 (UTC) |
| The same thing can be done using a sampler template that could be written without this extension."}}
| | ::::Hey! You didn't enlighten me about what those two errors are due to. [[User:Lysander|Lysander]] ([[User talk:Lysander|talk]]) 04:10, 28 March 2015 (UTC) |
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| :So basically, they are not in favor of adding this extension. --[[User:Etenne|Etenne]] ([[User talk:Etenne|talk]]) 18:16, 21 March 2015 (UTC) | | ---- |
| ::Okay, let me research and see if there is a way to address their concerns. There probably is. Alternatively, we can restrict editing access to the Module namespace to sysops, and have a [[Project:Requests for page imports]] page. Doing imports in that way is probably the cleanest way to bring in templates from Wikipedia anyway, because it will automatically bring in the documentation, sub-templates, etc.
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| ::By the way, [[mediawikiwiki:Extension:Scribunto/Lua_reference_manual#Removed_functions_and_packages|here]] is a list of Lua stuff that for security and/or performance reasons isn't available to users using Scribunto. [[User:Lysander|Lysander]] ([[User talk:Lysander|talk]]) 20:52, 21 March 2015 (UTC)
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| ===Revised proposal===
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| Okay, can we present the Wiki Council with a revised proposal, to install Scribunto and also use [[mediawikiwiki:Manual:$wgNamespaceProtection|$wgNamespaceProtection]] to restrict editing of the Module namespace to bureaucrats only (or maybe to members of some even smaller group, such as "module editors", which might consist of just one person (e.g. Etenne), as long as that person is an active user who can respond to requests for imports), so as to address security concerns? See [[mediawikiwiki:Manual:Preventing_access#1.10_upwards]] for implementation details on that.
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| Also, so that you can easily import templates from Wikipedia, I recommend setting: <code>$wgImportSources[] = 'wikipedia';</code> For more info on how that config setting works, see [[mediawikiwiki:Manual:$wgImportSources]]. Thanks, [[User:Lysander|Lysander]] ([[User talk:Lysander|talk]]) 21:04, 21 March 2015 (UTC)
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| :Well it's like this: I can ask the Wiki Council to revisit this idea and even if they agree, I strongly suspects that the tech. staff will not... no matter how much we beg. On the other hand, they did agree to add the category tree extension (which I am very happy with BTW) and I didn't even have to suck anyone's dick to get it done :) So that is progress.... --[[User:Etenne|Etenne]] ([[User talk:Etenne|talk]]) 13:08, 22 March 2015 (UTC) | |
| ::Technically they're correct that we can get by without Scribunto and create new templates from scratch to do everything that Scribunto would do. But the same argument could be made for ParserFunctions, Cite, etc. I would definitely include Scribunto on any list I were to make of the dozen or even half-dozen most essential MediaWiki extensions to have around, for the same reasons that ParserFunctions and Cite are essential, namely that they're so widely used in content one might want to import from Wikipedia.
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| ::Well, maybe wait awhile and then revisit the issue? I'm not sucking their dicks, though.. Scribunto is cool but not ''that'' cool.. :)
| | == Welcome back == |
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| ::I would compare it to eating ass, though.. your partner might balk at first, saying "I know there's no logical reason why it would be dangerous if everything's clean, but I still don't like the thought of it." But if you keep barraging them with informative articles and explanations of the benefits for them, and saying how much it would please you and make you happy, they may eventually relent, however reluctantly. Of course, it can also be helpful to give them some time to think about it and get used to the idea.
| | I was glad to read your message on BoyChat and to see you're back. Then I thought: is there any hope left that the French BoyWiki will survive? :-/ |
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| ::Also, sometimes you have to accommodate counter-requests that seem unnecessary but help put them at ease. For example, a partner may say that in order to feel comfortable eating your ass, they'll need to do it in the shower just to have maximum assurance that everything is clean. I would compare that to making the Module namespace open to editing by sysops only. [[User:Lysander|Lysander]] ([[User talk:Lysander|talk]]) 17:05, 22 March 2015 (UTC)
| | Bron disappeared, I don't know when, why nor where. So did the French tech Pinocchio, which is a great loss. Some rare contributors obstinately continued creating pages on the French wiki between 2015 and 2019. But now I think they are disheartened because of the recent and sudden software change, that ruined all the formatting we had made on a lot of pages (thanks to Pinocchio's coding extensions). |
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| == Bad faith ==
| | Now it seems that the Council's page doesn't work anymore -- or am I wrong? |
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| I notice that sex offender treatment programs, and the general public, tend to regard pedophiles as making arguments in bad faith. In fact, if you're someone who expresses sympathy with pedophiles and supportive of sexual freedom, they'll assume you're a pedophile selfishly seeking excuses to molest kids, because what else could explain support for such views? However, it's assumed that people who make contrary arguments act selflessly.
| | If you can be of some help, I'd like to write more to you through a secure mailbox. |
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| Isn't it normally assumed that all interest groups act selfishly, and that there's nothing wrong with this? It's assumed that in a democracy, everything will be okay because the majority will keep in check any minority factions that want to promote their own selfish views at the expense of society. But the majority, too, will do this out of selfishness.
| | [[User:Caprineus|Caprineus]] ([[User talk:Caprineus|talk]]) 21:28, 13 June 2021 (UTC) |
| | :I categorized all the daily pages of the French Agora, from December 7, 2008 to July 9, 2014 (most of them were difficult to find before this categorization): [https://www.boywiki.org/fr/Cat%C3%A9gorie:Agora Agora] |
| | :Now everybody can see the really tough job that had been made by many contributors of the French BoyWiki, especially by the tech Pinocchio. It is not acceptable that such a job is destroyed after every update or server change, as exposed here: [https://www.boywiki.org/fr/BoyWiki:Agora/28_septembre_2020 Modifications intempestives] (written more than eight months ago – nobody even bothered to answer). |
| | :But do French-speaking writings matter?... :-/ |
| | :[[User:Caprineus|Caprineus]] ([[User talk:Caprineus|talk]]) 13:55, 19 June 2021 (UTC) |
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| What it comes down to is that people treat this issue differently than other issues because they have a hatred of pedophiles, regardless of whether or not they commit any crimes. They hate age-of-consent activists, not so much because they worry that they will succeed in lowering the age of consent, but because they believe "only a pedophile would make that argument" and because they hate pedophiles, they hate anyone who would make that argument.
| | :"But do French-speaking writings matter?" Well, I suppose that depends on who you ask. I would hope they matter to other French-speaking people and writers. I still don't have e-mail yet. Yeah, the upgrades do mess things up a bit but there is no way around that. |
| | :[[User:Etenne|Etenne]] |
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| It's not that they believe that making pro-pedophilia arguments will convince more people to commit offenses. Because after all, they believe "only a pedophile would make that argument"; therefore, it's impossible that a propensity to commit sex offenses would spread through argumentation, since only people who are already pedophiles are susceptible to believing those arguments. (They also don't believe in pedophiles' ability to refrain from committing sex offenses, even though they say that it's a choice to commit those offenses.)
| | ::Thank you for answering. |
| | ::The true problem is: when Wikipedia runs an update of MediaWiki, all features already installed are kept and perform correctly; but when BoyWiki is updated, almost all features created by a tech are suppressed. Why? |
| | ::This is not "messing things up a bit", but destroying things a lot. :-( As I said before, when contributors see this, they are disheartened. |
| | ::I hope you can contact somebody who steps in on this wrong update process. As for me, I know nobody, and can do nothing: my only competence is to write about cultural boy-love topics. If "there is no way around" to keep my job in a good state and appearance, well... I will finally recognize that I was wrong to spend so much time and energy for it. :-((( |
| | ::[[User:Caprineus|Caprineus]] ([[User talk:Caprineus|talk]]) 22:48, 20 June 2021 (UTC) |
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| The clinicians have a different attitude than the general public; they believe that through treatment, the risk of offending can be reduced. But they still believe that the risk will always be high enough that these patients will need to be intrusively monitored, and their liberty restricted. In the end, they pretty much hate pedophiles too, but they work within the framework of a system that usually releases sex offenders back into the population eventually. [[User:Lysander|Lysander]] ([[User talk:Lysander|talk]]) 21:13, 18 March 2015 (UTC)
| | :[[User:Etenne|Etenne]] |
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| :''"They have god on their side"''. Case closed... [[User:User4|User4]] ([[User talk:User4|talk]]) 23:08, 18 March 2015 (UTC)
| | == Messages from Eskimo == |
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| == Collateral damage ==
| | Hello [[User:Etenne|Etenne]] |
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| I was thinking, maybe one of the reasons why people hate pedophiles is because of the collateral damage from the war on pedophilia that has affected non-pedophiles. It's similar to how there was collateral damage from the war on homosexuality. Guys were afraid to hug or otherwise show affection toward each other, for fear of being considered gay, or arousing suspicions that they were gay. They also had to reject any other kinds of behaviors, mannerisms, styles of dress, etc. that might seem gay. To ward off any possible suspicions, they had to seem as anti-gay as possible at every opportunity by bashing homosexuality and homosexuals. Also, they probably resented the self-censorship and restrictions on their behavior that were necessary in order to put forth a certain appearance. | | I will be posting under this header any message I have for your consideration, I will delete old messages to make it more readable. |
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| It's the same way with pedophilia. People are scared to death of arousing suspicions of being a pedophile. So they feel they can't show affection to children, for instance (e.g. by physical touch, buying them gifts, etc.), because of what people might think. To deflect any possible suspicion as much as they can, they bash pedophiles and pedophilia every chance they get. They resent having to censor themselves from showing even non-sexual love for children, and they blame it on pedophiles.
| | --[[User:Eskimo|Eskimo]] ([[User talk:Eskimo|talk]]) 12:48, 27 October 2022 (UTC) |
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| Once it became okay to be gay, there was no need for heterosexuals to try to avoid any gay-seeming behaviors, because even if someone were to draw the incorrect conclusion that they were gay, it wouldn't matter. Likewise, once it becomes okay to be a pedophile, it won't matter if someone mistakes a non-pedophile's gestures of non-sexual love for a child as motivated by pedophilia. We will all be freer to be ourselves, regardless of our orientation. [[User:Lysander|Lysander]] ([[User talk:Lysander|talk]]) 22:08, 18 March 2015 (UTC)
| | :: yes you were absolutely right, that worked. Now, any guesses on getting Extension:TimedMediaHandler to work? |
| | [[Etenne]] [[File:BLSmileyface.png|40 px|link=Etenne]] 20:32, 20 June 2022 (UTC) |
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| == Here's a little (academic) test for you... ==
| | Hello [[User:Etenne|Etenne]] |
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| Why is the category "Scientific literature" (which I believe ''you'' created) actually erroneous? [[User:User4|User4]] ([[User talk:User4|talk]]) 23:39, 18 March 2015 (UTC)
| | Regarding getting Extension:TimedMediaHandler to work, can you post an example page or description of what the problem is? I can spend sometime on the Internet trying to track it down and report back if I find anything replicated. |
| :Easy because it should be "Academic literature" but I believe that it was you who requested I create that category and I likely did not want to argue with you over something that trivial. I know that Scientific literature actually means scientific journals and periodicals etc. As always, you are free to add your own categories as appropriate and I really hate categorizing other peoples work but since no one here seems to understand <nowiki>[[Category:MY TOPIC]]</nowiki> I am forced to add topics that I know nothing about to categories, that I care less about..then listen to you bitch because you are unhappy. I suggest if you want it in the right category.... you learn to understand our category structure and do it yourself! --[[User:Etenne|Etenne]] ([[User talk:Etenne|talk]]) 00:09, 19 March 2015 (UTC)
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| :::'Easy because it should be "Academic literature"'
| | --[[User:Eskimo|Eskimo]] ([[User talk:Eskimo|talk]]) 13:35, 10 August 2022 (UTC) |
| :: Nope. Sorry, but that is the '''''wrong answer'''''. Try ''again''.
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| :::"As always, you are free to add your own categories as appropriate..."
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| ::Is that a lie, or are you simply giving a twisted version of the truth? Articles that I have included in several categories - one of which was "Encyclopedia," ''you'' have then gone back and ''removed'' the Encyclopedia category.
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| ::So, I am "free to add [my] own categories as appropriate," and ''you'' are "free to arbitrarily decide that the Encyclopedia category is 'not appropriate'" and remove it.
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| ::Then - how could it be that I am "free to add categories" (and Encyclopedia is ''indeed'' an "appropriate" category) given that you will just remove that category?
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| ::Lest you forget: ''Easy because it should be "Academic literature"'' is ''not'' the correct answer. Try again. [[User:User4|User4]] ([[User talk:User4|talk]]) 01:35, 19 March 2015 (UTC)
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| :Well, I've felt some guilt over leaving stuff uncategorized. But it's tougher here than on Wikipedia. Wikipedia already has an established category scheme covering several million articles, so it's relatively easy to fit new articles into that scheme by looking for related articles or typing part of a possible category into [[wikipedia:Project:HotCat|HotCat]] and seeing what it suggests. Also, there are plenty of wikignomes on Wikipedia who love spending all their time categorizing other people's articles. Here, we don't always have those advantages. Also, BoyWiki's categorization scheme is a little eccentric. Maybe there's a help page about categorization somewhere? [[Help:Categories]]?
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| ::@Lysander: "A little eccentric?" That is a ''masterful'' understatement.
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| :::There are a lot of sites with unusual schemes; for example, Mises Wiki has an [http://wiki.mises.org/mediawiki/index.php?title=Special%3AAllPages&from=&to=&namespace=404 argumentation namespace]. Sometimes I wonder if BoyWiki could benefit from something like that, but it would depend on users' being willing to contribute content to it. [[User:Lysander|Lysander]] ([[User talk:Lysander|talk]]) 05:12, 21 March 2015 (UTC)
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| :There are BoyWiki users who sometimes dump a bunch of text into mainspace and expect others to clean it up, or maybe they figured they were going to clean it up themselves later, when they got around to it. I think to myself, couldn't they have at least written a decent, properly formatted first sentence summarizing what the article is about? But whatever, I take one for the team by fixing it. [[User:Lysander|Lysander]] ([[User talk:Lysander|talk]]) 00:31, 19 March 2015 (UTC)
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| ::Frankly, Just add it to the a new and most generic 2ed level or third level category you can think of. Right now, we don't have enough entries for "French artists from the 1800's born in Paris". --[[User:Etenne|Etenne]] ([[User talk:Etenne|talk]]) 00:38, 19 March 2015 (UTC)
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| ::::Can we also request installation of [[mediawikiwiki:Extension:CategoryTree|CategoryTree]]? It could make it easier and quicker to explore the categories and find out what's there. [[User:Lysander|Lysander]] ([[User talk:Lysander|talk]]) 00:46, 19 March 2015 (UTC)
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| :::::: The problem is that it was designed for Wikipedia and many of our categories may be more BL specific. I wish I know an easy way to do this or had one one of them guys who enjoy that sort of thing. I will think about it and maybe when I am less tired and have less on my mind... I might come up with something. --[[User:Etenne|Etenne]] ([[User talk:Etenne|talk]]) 01:05, 19 March 2015 (UTC)
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| :::::::I haven't noticed a problem with it on wikis other than Wikipedia. [[User:Lysander|Lysander]] ([[User talk:Lysander|talk]]) 01:49, 19 March 2015 (UTC)
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| == Categories == | | == Categories == |
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| Maybe one way to encourage users to categorize pages is to, when adding categories, note the category in the edit summary, like in [https://www.boywiki.org/en/index.php?title=Steganography&curid=2957&diff=19843&oldid=19456 this edit]. Then casual browsers of [[Special:RecentChanges]] will get an idea of what categories are available and be more likely to use the right ones. It occurs to me that edit summaries are a convenient way to communicate that sort of information to all users of a small wiki like this one, since everyone will see it even if they don't look at the diff.
| | Hi Etenne, I am happy that you are happy with my work! I know that I can put pages into categories! |
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| Maybe edit summaries represent an underutilized opportunity in other ways, too. For example, I normally leave it blank when I'm expanding an article, but if the edit is adding a fact that I want to bring to the attention of all users (including those who might not have taken an interest in that article yet), that could be a quick way to tell them about it. [[User:Lysander|Lysander]] ([[User talk:Lysander|talk]]) 02:38, 21 March 2015 (UTC)
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| == In Reality. ==
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| Hey, you guys. In reality, is [[Wikipedia]] a factual and trustworthy resource on the [[internet]]? The ultimate goal of Wiki is to be a "sum of all human knowledge". I am just wondering here whether it is a reliable resource of information to improve pages on this [[Wiki]]? [[User:Lister34|Lister34]] ([[User talk:Lister34|talk]]) 04:24, 21 March 2015 (UTC)
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| :Jimbo [[wikipedia:User_talk:Jimbo_Wales/Archive_38#Truth_in_advertising_.2F_the_sum_of_all_knowledge|wrote]], 'Remember, an encyclopedia is not a data dump. The word "sum" has a purpose in that statement... an encyclopedia is not "all human knowledge" it is the "sum" of all human knowledge. It is specifically delimited for very good reasons.' Inevitably some information is lost when you only keep the sum of a bunch of numbers and discard the numbers themselves. [[User:Lysander|Lysander]] ([[User talk:Lysander|talk]]) 04:38, 21 March 2015 (UTC)
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| :::Thank you. could you please explain what you are tring to state here, Lysander? [[User:Lister34|Lister34]] ([[User talk:Lister34|talk]]) 05:35, 21 March 2015 (UTC)
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| ::::Where Wikipedia lies or misleads, it's mostly by omission rather than commission. That's part of the reason why BoyWiki exists. [[User:Lysander|Lysander]] ([[User talk:Lysander|talk]]) 05:45, 21 March 2015 (UTC)
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| ::::: Mabe, could you list some of the times in which Wikipedia has done these things that you are talking about here? [[User:Lister34|Lister34]] ([[User talk:Lister34|talk]]) 08:29, 21 March 2015 (UTC)
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| ::::::For example, the deletion of certain articles (see the [[Wikipedia]] article for examples). Also, the ArbCom banning of users for expressing dissident views off-wiki; who knows what articles they would've written by now if they hadn't been banned. Those users usually migrate over to wikis like BoyWiki, or wherever else they can find safe haven, so a comparison of the articles we have here to what exists on Wikipedia will give you an idea of what Wikipedia is missing. Also, when the banned users sock at Wikipedia, their articles are deleted. It creates systemic bias. [[User:Lysander|Lysander]] ([[User talk:Lysander|talk]]) 21:32, 22 March 2015 (UTC)
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| ::::: Hi Lister34. I have made some comments regarding problems with the Wikipedia article within a copy of the article saved here: https://www.boywiki.org/en/USER4/DRAFT/Pedophile_Wikipedia_article_criticism Perhaps those (few) comments will be useful to you in understanding some of the bias within the article. [[User:User4|User4]] ([[User talk:User4|talk]]) 22:38, 22 March 2015 (UTC)
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| == I think you are doing an excellent job at BW, for the most part. ==
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| I may bitch and whine about some things, things that I feel are very important. That's my nature -- to try to ''improve'' things.
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| But I am amazed, when I look at BW as a whole, the great stuff that you are doing, and your knowledge of things that I know ''absolutely nothing'' about (and have ''no interest'' in learning, either)!
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| Please take my comments and criticisms in the spirit with which they are meant -- which is to make BW better, and not to attack or criticize you personally (though sometimes that is how they may appear).
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| I hope you feel better soon. I know it's a drag when things go wrong with one's body. Why, I myself am currently suffering from... oh, wait... who cares about that? I just hope I live long enough to finish all the stuff that I have already started...
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| Anyway, best of luck with everything! [[User:User4|User4]] ([[User talk:User4|talk]]) 19:03, 22 March 2015 (UTC)
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| == Totally hypothetical question ==
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| If we lived in an alternate universe in which there were no laws against child porn, would BoyWiki allow non-sysops to upload images? [[User:Lysander|Lysander]] ([[User talk:Lysander|talk]]) 21:58, 22 March 2015 (UTC)
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| :I don't know. Maybe in that Universe, people would have learned to accept and respect each others differences and there would be no BoyWiki as we would all be one great big human family. --[[User:Etenne|Etenne]] ([[User talk:Etenne|talk]]) 10:01, 23 March 2015 (UTC)
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| ::Well, prior to 1982 (''[[New York v. Ferber]]''), there was still an age of consent, but there were much more robust constitutional protections of free speech. We are, in a way, on great big human family already, since we all come from the same genetic lineage; it's just an abusive family with domineering patriarchs and matriarchs. :) But the kids get rebellious sometimes and are able to successfully get away with doing what they want sometimes. [[User:Lysander|Lysander]] ([[User talk:Lysander|talk]]) 16:25, 23 March 2015 (UTC)
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| == Categorization ==
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| It seems like it would be useful to categorize the U.S. states as [[:Category:States of the United States]] and then perhaps make that a subcategory of [[:Category:United States of America]]. We should eventually have articles for all 50 states, plus Puerto Rico and other commonwealths, territories, etc. [[User:Lysander|Lysander]] ([[User talk:Lysander|talk]]) 18:16, 23 March 2015 (UTC)
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| == RE: State by state rape and abuse laws file ==
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| [[United_States_state_by_state_rape_and_abuse_laws]] is a much larger file than necessary, due to it being in .HTML format instead of wiki format.
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| Could you possibly run it through that online "convert .HTML to wiki" thingy, to reduce the file size? I can't do it myself because of my browser configuration (and I don't want to mess with how my browser is configured - it is finally working fairly correctly). [[User:User4|User4]] ([[User talk:User4|talk]]) 11:21, 24 March 2015 (UTC)
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| :Yes, I can give that a try. I will try to get to that today before I have to leave out...if not... when I get home latter. --[[User:Etenne|Etenne]] ([[User talk:Etenne|talk]]) 11:35, 24 March 2015 (UTC)
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| ::I need the page source for this... I need to take a look at what it is suppose to look like.--[[User:Etenne|Etenne]] ([[User talk:Etenne|talk]]) 12:04, 24 March 2015 (UTC)
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| ::: I published a list of information, and simple lists of information ''cannot'' be copyrighted. All the information quoted is in the public domain, as they are state laws: http://www.arte-sana.com/articles/rape_statutes.pdf [[User:User4|User4]] ([[User talk:User4|talk]]) 12:37, 24 March 2015 (UTC)
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| ::::OK, I took a look and I can do that. I thought there might be extra boxes. It might take me a day or so to fix it up ( And make it all pretty:). --[[User:Etenne|Etenne]] ([[User talk:Etenne|talk]]) 12:48, 24 March 2015 (UTC)
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| :::: Before putting ''too'' much time into it, we might consider finding/creating an updated list. Those laws were the ones in effect 12 to 14 years ago, and ''many'' of those laws have been changed - and made even more draconian! [[User:User4|User4]] ([[User talk:User4|talk]]) 13:43, 24 March 2015 (UTC)
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| :::::I can also help you with this sort of thing, if you just need reformatting done. The most important thing, when updating lists, is to make sure you give a citation to the code section so people can check it later and verify that it hasn't changed. For example, the age of consent article lists a lot of ages of consent with no citations, and I have frequently run into articles that contradicted that information. But I couldn't tell right off the bat which was the more current information.
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| :::::Also, if it does change, and you happen to know the legislative history behind its changing, that's helpful to note in the U.S. state article. The U.S. state articles should ideally not only say what the law is but also describe the politics behind how those laws got to be what they are now. That's useful information for activists, scholars, etc. [[User:Lysander|Lysander]] ([[User talk:Lysander|talk]]) 16:02, 24 March 2015 (UTC)
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| == RE: Changes to software that may entail security risks ==
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| If what we now are using works (and given that we are not exactly ''overloaded'' with user input at this point) I think we should stick with the software we have, and not have to worry about even ''potential'' security risks with newer software. "Better Safe than Sorry."
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| And when we are talking about "security" we don't simply mean risking having to click on the "undo" button of an article that was tampered with (or even -- in the worst-case scenario -- having to re-upload the entire wiki's contents from a backup).
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| When someone's ''personal security'' is at risk (their real-life identity, their livelihood, their relationships with friends and neighbors, etc.) '''''there is no ''"undo"'' button to click on'''''. [[User:User4|User4]] ([[User talk:User4|talk]]) 04:07, 25 March 2015 (UTC)
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| :What "newer software" are you talking about? [[User:Lysander|Lysander]] ([[User talk:Lysander|talk]]) 04:32, 25 March 2015 (UTC)
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| :I am not sure what you mean by "undo button" as this can be found under "View history". However, I am too lazy to log out right now to see if that is an option only available to Admins like the "Deleted user contributions" button. --[[User:Etenne|Etenne]] ([[User talk:Etenne|talk]]) 13:41, 25 March 2015 (UTC)
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| ::@Lysander: You post elsewhere:
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| :::Install Scribunto and also use $wgNamespaceProtection to restrict editing of the Module namespace to sysops only, so as to address security concerns.
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| ::... and when I suggest not installing software that may involve security risks, you say, ''"What "newer software" are you talking about?"'' I mean, just ''how disingenuous'' can a person be?
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| ::BTW -- when are you going to become a Sysop at BoyWiki? Soon?
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| ::@Etenne: By "undue button" I mean the, for example, [https://www.boywiki.org/en/index.php?title=User:User4/DRAFT/Main_Index_of_all_BoyWiki_pages_(must_be_manually_updated_when_necessary)&action=edit&undoafter=20484&undo=20485 (undo)]
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| ::DON'T CLICK ON THAT LINK! (unless you want to undo all the work that went into making that file!)
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| ::I meant that if a person's life is destroyed because he is "outed" there is no (undo) for him to "click" on. If an unscrupulous (or just plain stupid) person were to become a Sysop here at BoyWiki, and if Scribunto were installed, the potential exists for an exploit that could compromise the security of visitors and users at BoyWiki, leading to their "outing" -- which no (undo) exists to remedy. [[User:User4|User4]] ([[User talk:User4|talk]]) 02:29, 26 March 2015 (UTC)
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| :::So maybe, instead of restricting the editing of that namespace to sysops, restrict it to bureaucrats, or some even smaller group of users (e.g. "developers" or "techs" or something). Etenne could be made the only member of that group, if that's deemed desirable. It just needs to be someone who is actively involved in the wiki and can respond to requests for imports. [[User:Lysander|Lysander]] ([[User talk:Lysander|talk]]) 03:15, 26 March 2015 (UTC)
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| == To all BoyWiki users:Naming ==
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| The convention for naming pages is that articles should be singular whereas categories should be plural.
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| *Names of topics and topic categories should be singular, normally corresponding to the name of a BoyWiki. article. Examples: "Law" (which represents a body of knowledge), "France", "George W. Bush".
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| *Names of set categories should be plural. Examples: "Writers", "Villages in Poland".
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| However, I am willing to hear counter arguments to this practice or suggestions before deciding what the policy should be --[[User:Etenne|Etenne]] ([[User talk:Etenne|talk]]) 13:17, 25 March 2015 (UTC)
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| :Just yesterday I noticed that Wikipedia has categories with a singular title, e.g. [[wikipedia:Category:Vagina]]. Also, there are some plural article titles, e.g.[[wikipedia:Jews]]. [[User:Lysander|Lysander]] ([[User talk:Lysander|talk]]) 15:13, 25 March 2015 (UTC)
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| ::You can't figure out what those two (obvious, at least, to me) errors are due to? Uh... You certainly make up in glibness what you lack in perspicacity. [[User:User4|User4]] ([[User talk:User4|talk]]) 02:37, 26 March 2015 (UTC)
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| :::Enlighten me. [[User:Lysander|Lysander]] ([[User talk:Lysander|talk]]) 03:16, 26 March 2015 (UTC)
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| == Deletion summaries ==
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| So that users browsing RecentChanges can tell at a glance what is going on, and so that posterity browsing through [[Special:Logs/delete]] without knowledge of what's happening on the wiki now can understand the reasons why, I recommend using informative deletion summaries. Revising [[MediaWiki:Deletereason-dropdown]] to list the most common deletion reasons, if it doesn't already, can be a way to do this without putting in a lot of effort. Thanks, [[User:Lysander|Lysander]] ([[User talk:Lysander|talk]]) 02:16, 26 March 2015 (UTC)
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| == There, Etenne, are you happy now? ==
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| Almost ''two hours'' of my life ''shot to hell'' writing [[BoyLovers_and_their_travels_around_the_world]]. And now my fingers are aching, I'm so hungry I could even eat a Big Mac, and if I don't go and piss soon, my eyes are going to turn yellow! I sure hope it was all worth it! [[User:User4|User4]] ([[User talk:User4|talk]]) 22:31, 27 March 2015 (UTC)
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| == Defining boylove ==
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| It's been said that love "is a short word, easy to spell, difficult to define, and impossible to live without." It's such an elusive and complicated concept that the Greeks came up with many different words to describe its different forms, including agápe, éros, philia, storge, (philo)xenia, latreia, etaireia, eusplahneia, omoria, pathos, pothos and piste.
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| There are prostitutes who put love and respect into their care for their clients, and clients who are the same way toward their prostitutes. I knew a prostitute whose customers would blow up their (the prostitute was androgynous and genderqueer) phone all the time, even after they left the area, because the clients got addicted/attached to that particular prostitute. On the other hand, there are couples, whose sexual relationships aren't considered commercial, who don't treat each other with much love and respect.
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| It's a great step in the right direction to not look down on other people for having relationships with people outside their age group. But what about also not looking down on people for having commercial sexual relationships? Are we going to define love in such a way as to exclude those relationships from qualifying as "loving"?
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| Sad to say, some guys are lonely and can't find anyone who will have sex with them unless they're helping out that person financially. That's as close an experience as they get to love. And maybe it would even fall under some of those Greek categories of love.
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| They don't want to exploit anyone; they just want human touch and affection. And maybe some of them also have an attraction to young people. Are they bad people for having all those qualities? In many western countries, society has set up all sorts of divisions between the generations so that it's hard to have access to kids unless you're a family member, teacher, etc. or you engage in risky activities such as looking for kids online. Therefore, it's understandable that some people wanting to have sexual relationships with children (whether long-term or short-term) would go to other countries, where young and older people mingle more freely. [[User:Lysander|Lysander]] ([[User talk:Lysander|talk]]) 22:58, 27 March 2015 (UTC)
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| == Would you please advise the other editors ==
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| Would you please advise the other editors ''not'' to edit my contributions until I have had a chance to work on them myself for awhile?
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| I understand all the "edited unmercifully" stuff, but still -- when I create an article I should have the right to work on it awhile without others jumping in and making major modifications, shouldn't I? If I were to do the same to some of the absolute **** being created by others recently, I'm afraid it would be "likely to cause problems" -- something that I'm sure we all wish to avoid. No? [[User:User4|User4]] ([[User talk:User4|talk]]) 03:57, 28 March 2015 (UTC)
| | Gimli2001 |
| :You could use [[:Template:Inuse]] or something. Or create it in the draft namespace or your userspace and then move it. By the way, you could've come to me directly, and I would've told you the same thing, which might have resolved this without needing to resolve a third person. [[User:Lysander|Lysander]] ([[User talk:Lysander|talk]]) 04:09, 28 March 2015 (UTC)
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20:32, 20 June 2022 (UTC)
