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| ==Subpages== | | ==Subpages== |
| *[[Talk:Etenne/subpage1]] | | *[[Talk:Etenne/subpage1]] |
| | *[[Talk:Etenne/subpage2]] |
| | *[[BoyWiki:Etenne's Palaestra]] |
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| '''Please ask yourself before hitting the post button''' | | '''Please ask yourself before hitting the post button''' |
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| # '''Dose this have a cultural or historical relavance to boylove?''' | | # '''Dose this have a cultural or historical [[BoyWiki:Relevance policy|relavance to boylove]]?''' |
| # '''By posting this are you going to make Etenne lose sleep?''' | | # '''By posting this are you going to make Etenne lose sleep?''' |
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| == To all BoyWiki users:Naming == | | == To all BoyWiki users:Naming == |
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| :::Enlighten me. [[User:Lysander|Lysander]] ([[User talk:Lysander|talk]]) 03:16, 26 March 2015 (UTC) | | :::Enlighten me. [[User:Lysander|Lysander]] ([[User talk:Lysander|talk]]) 03:16, 26 March 2015 (UTC) |
| ::::Hey! You didn't enlighten me about what those two errors are due to. [[User:Lysander|Lysander]] ([[User talk:Lysander|talk]]) 04:10, 28 March 2015 (UTC) | | ::::Hey! You didn't enlighten me about what those two errors are due to. [[User:Lysander|Lysander]] ([[User talk:Lysander|talk]]) 04:10, 28 March 2015 (UTC) |
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| | == Welcome back == |
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| | I was glad to read your message on BoyChat and to see you're back. Then I thought: is there any hope left that the French BoyWiki will survive? :-/ |
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| == Do you have an text editor that handles carriage returns (CR) and line feed (LF) in search/replace functions? ==
| | Bron disappeared, I don't know when, why nor where. So did the French tech Pinocchio, which is a great loss. Some rare contributors obstinately continued creating pages on the French wiki between 2015 and 2019. But now I think they are disheartened because of the recent and sudden software change, that ruined all the formatting we had made on a lot of pages (thanks to Pinocchio's coding extensions). |
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| If for some reason you don't want to download the NoteTab light program linked to above, before I put in all the time to search for an alternative, I need to know if you have some such editor, which would help immensely in your editing of files for BoyChat. I also have noticed that you have not responded to earlier posts of mine here on your talk page, and I can't help but wonder if there is any specific reason for that.
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| * [[User:User4|User4]] ([[User talk:User4|talk]]) 19:15, 10 April 2015 (UTC)
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| :It's not that... just like you, I have been very busy in the last few days and I don't see it getting any better for at least a week. Plus with my recent health problems, it's not been a fun time for me. One of the BoyWiki admins just pointed out to me that on fr.boywiki there are a few entries on Japan that could be translated and added... which he feels are better qulity then what we have now... how's your french? :)
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| :*--[[User:Etenne|Etenne]] ([[User talk:Etenne|talk]]) 19:26, 10 April 2015 (UTC)
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| ::I have a way with languages... part of my "magic" you might say... Links, please? (I hope the articles are not very long... I'd really like to finish some other stuff I'm in the middle of)...
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| ::*[[User:User4|User4]] ([[User talk:User4|talk]]) 20:12, 10 April 2015 (UTC)
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| :::<blockquote>
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| *https://www.boywiki.org/fr/Japon
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| *https://www.boywiki.org/fr/Chigo
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| *https://www.boywiki.org/fr/Chigo_monogatari
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| *https://www.boywiki.org/fr/Wakashudō
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| </blockquote>
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| :::The Japan article is in your hands now, at least for the magic that ''you'' can do that I don't know how to. I won't touch it until you finish fixing what you can, OK?
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| :::*[[User:User4|User4]] ([[User talk:User4|talk]]) 20:59, 10 April 2015 (UTC)
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| ::::Happy now? Do I get a cookie for being a good boy?
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| ::::*[[User:User4|User4]] ([[User talk:User4|talk]]) 21:30, 10 April 2015 (UTC)
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| :::::Yes, it looks like I am going to be in Japan for a few days to correct the code and then I need to go back and read the original French and correct some of the translation errors. And to be quite frank, my French is getting a bit rusty as I don't use it as much as I should. --[[User:Etenne|Etenne]] ([[User talk:Etenne|talk]]) 10:43, 11 April 2015 (UTC)
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| ::::::You may want to open each of the following URLs in a separate browser tab, along with the English BoyWiki Japan page in another for editing. If you want, I can fix the translation errors -- I may be faster at fixing them than you (or you may be faster at that than I am -- I don't really know).
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| ::::::*https://www.boywiki.org/fr/Japon
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| ::::::*https://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=1&hl=en&ie=UTF8&prev=_t&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=fr&tl=en&u=https://www.boywiki.org/fr/Japon&usg=ALkJrhi_j-slEgWDmbCf0mGFbVM4XQEH-A
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| ::::::*[[User:User4|User4]] ([[User talk:User4|talk]]) 12:46, 11 April 2015 (UTC)
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| == Questioning the wisdom of encouraging users to reveal their e-mail addresses to BoyWiki (and potentially, to LEO) ==
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| Were this implemented, users could inadvertently expose themselves to being "outed".
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| :https://www.boywiki.org/en/User:Lysander/EmailAllChanges
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| {{unsigned|User4}}
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| :If you're going to question that, then what about [[Special:RequestAccount]], which also has an optional e-mail address field? [[User:Lysander|Lysander]] ([[User talk:Lysander|talk]]) 02:57, 13 April 2015 (UTC)
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| == Hack to avoid Wikipedia harvesting of IP addresses of BoyWiki readers who follow external links ==
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| Unintended consequences: disabling the <nowiki> {{w|}} </nowiki> template just corrupted the text of I-don't-know-how-many pages.
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| Here's an example:
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| *<nowiki> Here is a test sentence containing an imbedded link to the wikipedia article on {{w|test}} to demonstrate the new problem of text corruption.</nowiki>
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| * Here is a test sentence containing an imbedded link to the wikipedia article on {{w|test}} to demonstrate the new problem of text corruption.
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| I just did a quick check and there may be over 130 instances of the text corruption problem in various articles (not 130 ''articles'', but 130 ''instances'').
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| Linking can be made safe. See how I did the "External links" on the following page:
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| *https://www.boywiki.org/en/Sociogenesis
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| ::[[Sociogenesis]] or [[wikipedia:Sociogenesis|Sociogenesis]]
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| BoyWiki Russian roulette, one of these is an internal link and one is an external link (can you tell the difference?) make a choice. --[[User:Etenne|Etenne]] ([[User talk:Etenne|talk]]) 02:38, 13 April 2015 (UTC)
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| ::I see the difference. What do you suggest doing about it? [[User:User4|User4]] ([[User talk:User4|talk]]) 02:59, 13 April 2015 (UTC)
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| 130 instances exactly... if there were only a few it would be less of a problem but this is out of hand... --[[User:Etenne|Etenne]] ([[User talk:Etenne|talk]]) 02:50, 13 April 2015 (UTC)
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| :Yes, it's a serious problem, if Wikipedia is harvesting the IP addresses of those following embedded links. If you take BW offline, edit the exported .XML file of the entire site, then import it, you could fix the problem in an hour or two instead of taking ''days''.
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| :* [[User:User4|User4]] ([[User talk:User4|talk]]) 02:59, 13 April 2015 (UTC)
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| ::Etenne, when it comes to security for Internet users, either something ''is a serious problem that must be addressed'' or it is ''not a problem''. There is nothing in-between.
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| ::Either we take ''all possible steps'' to stop Wikipedia (and other sites) from detecting that the visitor to their site has clicked a link in a BoyWiki article, and prevent them from IP address harvesting, or ''else'' we don't worry about it at all. There is no "middle ground" on this.
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| ::So, which is it?
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| ::*[[User:User4|User4]] ([[User talk:User4|talk]]) 04:42, 13 April 2015 (UTC)
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| Would {{w|HTTP_referer#Referer_hiding|referer hiding}} solve this problem? I could write an extension, if necessary, to implement this on all external links. By the way, one of the downsides of using external links instead of interwiki links is that it trips the CAPTCHA each time. [[User:Lysander|Lysander]] ([[User talk:Lysander|talk]]) 05:24, 13 April 2015 (UTC)
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| :::I believe the modifications that Lysander has made to Template:W are sufficient to solve the problem. People can now see that it is an external link and can make a choice as to whether they want to click on it or not. Again, I want to stress that the use of this template within a paragraph text is not the best editing practice and I would '''give preference to making internal links''' or if necessary use [https://www.boywiki.org/en/Main_Page] or make the link a reference. --[[User:Etenne|Etenne]] ([[User talk:Etenne|talk]]) 10:20, 13 April 2015 (UTC)
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| ::::I notice too, from [http://www.w3schools.com/tags/att_a_rel.asp this page], that it's the browser that sends the HTTP referer header. So the user can set up their browser to not send these headers even if we don't use rel=noreferrer. It's also possible to use [[User:Lysander/Noreferrer hack|this hack]]. By the way, interwiki links on most wikis are a slightly different color than regular wikilinks, so I wonder if BoyWiki has a non-standard setup with regard to that? There might be a way to fix that issue, e.g. by changing the CSS. [[User:Lysander|Lysander]] ([[User talk:Lysander|talk]]) 20:04, 13 April 2015 (UTC)
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| == A few interesting graphic files you may want to use on BW are at commons.wikimedia.org ==
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| https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Pederasty
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| *[[User:User4|User4]] ([[User talk:User4|talk]]) 01:46, 15 April 2015 (UTC)
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| == Pederasty in Ancient Greece - World Heritage Encyclopedia™ licensed under CC BY-SA ==
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| *Pederasty in Ancient Greece
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| :Sourced from World Heritage Encyclopedia™ licensed under CC BY-SA 3.0
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| :Help to improve this article, make contributions at the Citational Source
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| :3365380
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| *Seems high quality
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| *Seems unbiased
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| *Seems "open source" (creative commons) and therefore quotable.
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| :http://self.gutenberg.org/articles/Pederasty_in_ancient_Greece
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| *[[User:User4|User4]] ([[User talk:User4|talk]]) 02:44, 15 April 2015 (UTC)
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| I got a little farther and I saw this :(
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| :On the one hand, the practice of pederasty is ancient and is still acceptable in some cultures. On the other hand, we cannot turn a blind eye to the fact that pederastic relationships are, more often than not, extremely traumatic to children. It is obvious that pederasts and pedophiles take advantage of and exploit young children, and we feel obligated to put an end to what we consider to be a heinous practice. Nevertheless, the practice of pederasty continues to flourish (and grow) in a lot of places, and there doesn't seem to be an end in sight.
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| So is is not as "unbiased" as I thought. Still, it has some good information.
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| *[[User:User4|User4]] ([[User talk:User4|talk]]) 02:56, 15 April 2015 (UTC)
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| == Please caution BoyWiki "users" to be more careful when creating and removing redirects ==
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| A number of links have been broken by users (editors) who carelessly create (and remove) redirects. Broken links damage the credibility of BoyWiki in the minds of visitors, something that is to be avoided at all cost, in my opinion. Yes, damage done by incompetent or thoughtless users can be undone, but ''only after the damage has been noted'', which may not occur quickly, if ever.
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| We should try to appear professional in our articles whenever possible (essays aside).
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| *[[User:User4|User4]] ([[User talk:User4|talk]]) 12:25, 16 April 2015 (UTC)
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| == I don't know why you go to such great lengths to deliberately alienate volunteers who give their time freely to BoyWiki. ==
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| It is ''really'' counterproductive, not to mention damaging to BoyWiki. I don't know why you do it, unless you, in some way, wish to deliberately sabotage BoyWiki.
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| *[[User:User4|User4]] ([[User talk:User4|talk]]) 00:17, 17 April 2015 (UTC)
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| I understand the problem now. Really, I do. I know what happened.
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| You ''could'' have said, "I made a mistake, and I know it seems strange, but that was the easiest way to fix it." Done. No angry feelings. Makes you sound more human, too.
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| Or, "There was a strange software glitch, and this was the easiest way to fix the problem." Also, done. Unusual, but no further questions.
| | Now it seems that the Council's page doesn't work anymore -- or am I wrong? |
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| But, no. You brought out "the big guns" - "WE HAVE THE RIGHT TO DELETE ANYTHING WE WANT, WITHOUT GIVING ANY REASONS TO ANYBODY, SO SCREW YOU!" That is very abrupt, not to mention a very rude thing to say, and pisses people off. You ''could'' have held off on answering my question, and then had time to come up with one of the above responses.
| | If you can be of some help, I'd like to write more to you through a secure mailbox. |
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| I don't know if you'll understand the following: On BC, it is sometimes better NOT to cog something, because then you draw more attention to it. | | [[User:Caprineus|Caprineus]] ([[User talk:Caprineus|talk]]) 21:28, 13 June 2021 (UTC) |
| | :I categorized all the daily pages of the French Agora, from December 7, 2008 to July 9, 2014 (most of them were difficult to find before this categorization): [https://www.boywiki.org/fr/Cat%C3%A9gorie:Agora Agora] |
| | :Now everybody can see the really tough job that had been made by many contributors of the French BoyWiki, especially by the tech Pinocchio. It is not acceptable that such a job is destroyed after every update or server change, as exposed here: [https://www.boywiki.org/fr/BoyWiki:Agora/28_septembre_2020 Modifications intempestives] (written more than eight months ago – nobody even bothered to answer). |
| | :But do French-speaking writings matter?... :-/ |
| | :[[User:Caprineus|Caprineus]] ([[User talk:Caprineus|talk]]) 13:55, 19 June 2021 (UTC) |
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| You really can't afford to piss users off - there are so few, and you really need them. I suggest you keep that in mind next time you have any kind of problem that you have to deal with.
| | :"But do French-speaking writings matter?" Well, I suppose that depends on who you ask. I would hope they matter to other French-speaking people and writers. I still don't have e-mail yet. Yeah, the upgrades do mess things up a bit but there is no way around that. |
| *[[User:User4|User4]] ([[User talk:User4|talk]]) 12:02, 17 April 2015 (UTC)
| | :[[User:Etenne|Etenne]] |
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| :I have told you what I can either you accept that or you don't. Somethings don't need to be made public. | | ::Thank you for answering. |
| * --[[User:Etenne|Etenne]] ([[User talk:Etenne|talk]]) 12:22, 17 April 2015 (UTC)
| | ::The true problem is: when Wikipedia runs an update of MediaWiki, all features already installed are kept and perform correctly; but when BoyWiki is updated, almost all features created by a tech are suppressed. Why? |
| | ::This is not "messing things up a bit", but destroying things a lot. :-( As I said before, when contributors see this, they are disheartened. |
| | ::I hope you can contact somebody who steps in on this wrong update process. As for me, I know nobody, and can do nothing: my only competence is to write about cultural boy-love topics. If "there is no way around" to keep my job in a good state and appearance, well... I will finally recognize that I was wrong to spend so much time and energy for it. :-((( |
| | ::[[User:Caprineus|Caprineus]] ([[User talk:Caprineus|talk]]) 22:48, 20 June 2021 (UTC) |
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| :: You don't have to be so hard on people all the time. If you do, they won't cooperate with you. And if they don't cooperate with you, you are left with an impossible task - that of fixing everything that needs fixing at BoyWiki all by yourself. | | :[[User:Etenne|Etenne]] |
| ::So, which do you think is better (and easier) for both you and for BoyWiki? To "lighten up" (which seems somewhat difficult for you to do) or to try to accomplish an impossible task, one that you can never ever finish all by yourself?
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| ::*[[User:User4|User4]] ([[User talk:User4|talk]]) 12:56, 17 April 2015 (UTC)
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| ::I personally would prefer to have maximal transparency, except where it's necessary keep information private to shield BoyWiki and its members from attacks by the state. [[User:Lysander|Lysander]] ([[User talk:Lysander|talk]]) 19:11, 17 April 2015 (UTC)
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| == Categorization == | | == Messages from Eskimo == |
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| The answer to the question, "What is wrong with 'Scientific literature' as a category?" is not "Academic literature". The correct answer is, "Literature, scientific" or "Literature, academic". The ''main'' idea is Literature, and the ''sub''idea is scientific or academic.
| | Hello [[User:Etenne|Etenne]] |
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| You should (almost always) go from the ''larger, broader'' classification, then refine it into subcategories. This is the logical and professional way to do it. This is how dictionaries and encyclopedias are organized, but, of course, they also include "See ..." or "See also ..." entries.
| | I will be posting under this header any message I have for your consideration, I will delete old messages to make it more readable. |
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| You just created a new category, "Online history". This is problematic. The ''larger'' classification is "History" and the ''refinement'' is "online". So the category would better be "History, online" or "History, of online sites". A category "Online history" ''de''-emphasizes the fact that we are dealing with "History," and puts the focus on "Online" as the important main classification. Ideally, there should be a "See History, online" reference/redirect under an entry "Online history" just in case someone ''does'' for some reason have it in their head that "Online" is the broader classification.
| | --[[User:Eskimo|Eskimo]] ([[User talk:Eskimo|talk]]) 12:48, 27 October 2022 (UTC) |
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| If you create a category, "Short boys literature," then you are assuming that anyone trying to get information about boys -- which includes their height -- will think of "Short" as being the broader classification, while in fact, they are more likely to think first of "Boys," and then the subcategory, "height". So, the category should ''not'' be "Short boys literature," but "Literature, about short boys," or "Literature, short boys" or "Literature, addressing boy's height". Then have a reference/redirect from "Short boys" to "Literature, short boys" or whatever.
| | :: yes you were absolutely right, that worked. Now, any guesses on getting Extension:TimedMediaHandler to work? |
| | [[Etenne]] [[File:BLSmileyface.png|40 px|link=Etenne]] 20:32, 20 June 2022 (UTC) |
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| If you create a category such as: "Boys, of short stature (literature)" then new categories naturally follow, such as "Boys, tall (literature)," "Boys, fat (literature)," "Boys, thin (literature), "Boys, ugly (literature)" etc. This is the professional way, and ''non''professionals will very soon catch on to how this method of classification works, making it easier for them to find articles that interest them.
| | Hello [[User:Etenne|Etenne]] |
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| If you respond, no matter how briefly, to the explanation I have taken almost an hour to write here, you will ''encourage'' feedback from me (and others). If you ''ignore'' the explanation I have include here, then I am very unlikely to invest any time or energy in the future in providing feedback on improving the site. Of course, the choice is yours to do as you wish, and respond or not respond. I cannot force a response from you.
| | Regarding getting Extension:TimedMediaHandler to work, can you post an example page or description of what the problem is? I can spend sometime on the Internet trying to track it down and report back if I find anything replicated. |
| *[[User:User4|User4]] ([[User talk:User4|talk]]) 12:46, 17 April 2015 (UTC)
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| == Making more use of the Agora ==
| | --[[User:Eskimo|Eskimo]] ([[User talk:Eskimo|talk]]) 13:35, 10 August 2022 (UTC) |
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| [[BoyWiki:Agora]] hardly gets any use. Basically people use your talk page as the de facto village pump, including when they have problems with other users or proposals for how the site could be better run. The implication is that you'll be expected to adjudicate all disputes and decide all matters of site policy that the Wiki Council doesn't care about or want to deal with. Would it be better to shift more discussion over to the Agora? Maybe that would help cultivate a culture in which people think of these discussions as matters to be decided by site consensus rather than by any [http://wikiindex.org/God-king wiki-dictator]. I think, though, that in order for that to happen, people need to feel assured that you'll at least read the Agora (even if you don't respond to everything). [[User:Lysander|Lysander]] ([[User talk:Lysander|talk]]) 19:52, 17 April 2015 (UTC)
| | == Categories == |
| :Well I do at least try to review everything. Even though I don't try to be the niceness police, sometimes I have to be the boss. I do listen to and take seriously everyone's comments and suggestions. However, we are also in a number of ways limited in what we can do for a number of reasons including that we have many enemies and we are under constant scrutiny and attack. But yes, using the Agora more is a good idea. --[[User:Etenne|Etenne]] ([[User talk:Etenne|talk]]) 09:58, 18 April 2015 (UTC)
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| == BoyChat message for you re: ancient Greek ==
| | Hi Etenne, I am happy that you are happy with my work! I know that I can put pages into categories! |
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| http://boychat.org/messages/1435590.htm[[User:User4|User4]] ([[User talk:User4|talk]]) 12:15, 20 April 2015 (UTC)
| | Gimli2001 |
Subpages
To all users
It would be a good idea to review this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Neutral_point_of_view
In short, the neutrality of point of view leads to an objective, "scientific" discourse, whereas non-neutrality leads to one-sided views and propaganda.
An important point is perhaps to understand that specific sympathies are not incompatible with a neutral point of view: you can like a country, a person, an amorous preference, and nevertheless be able of an objective discourse about it.
Only objectivity is credible. That's why it is vital for BoyWiki. We don't "promote", we explain and illustrate. --Etenne (talk) 12:25, 4 March 2015 (UTC)
Please ask yourself before hitting the post button
- Dose this have a cultural or historical relavance to boylove?
- By posting this are you going to make Etenne lose sleep?
To all BoyWiki users:Naming
The convention for naming pages is that articles should be singular whereas categories should be plural.
- Names of topics and topic categories should be singular, normally corresponding to the name of a BoyWiki. article. Examples: "Law" (which represents a body of knowledge), "France", "George W. Bush".
- Names of set categories should be plural. Examples: "Writers", "Villages in Poland".
However, I am willing to hear counter arguments to this practice or suggestions before deciding what the policy should be --Etenne (talk) 13:17, 25 March 2015 (UTC)
- Just yesterday I noticed that Wikipedia has categories with a singular title, e.g. wikipedia:Category:Vagina. Also, there are some plural article titles, e.g.wikipedia:Jews. Lysander (talk) 15:13, 25 March 2015 (UTC)
- You can't figure out what those two (obvious, at least, to me) errors are due to? Uh... You certainly make up in glibness what you lack in perspicacity. User4 (talk) 02:37, 26 March 2015 (UTC)
- Enlighten me. Lysander (talk) 03:16, 26 March 2015 (UTC)
- Hey! You didn't enlighten me about what those two errors are due to. Lysander (talk) 04:10, 28 March 2015 (UTC)
Welcome back
I was glad to read your message on BoyChat and to see you're back. Then I thought: is there any hope left that the French BoyWiki will survive? :-/
Bron disappeared, I don't know when, why nor where. So did the French tech Pinocchio, which is a great loss. Some rare contributors obstinately continued creating pages on the French wiki between 2015 and 2019. But now I think they are disheartened because of the recent and sudden software change, that ruined all the formatting we had made on a lot of pages (thanks to Pinocchio's coding extensions).
Now it seems that the Council's page doesn't work anymore -- or am I wrong?
If you can be of some help, I'd like to write more to you through a secure mailbox.
Caprineus (talk) 21:28, 13 June 2021 (UTC)
- I categorized all the daily pages of the French Agora, from December 7, 2008 to July 9, 2014 (most of them were difficult to find before this categorization): Agora
- Now everybody can see the really tough job that had been made by many contributors of the French BoyWiki, especially by the tech Pinocchio. It is not acceptable that such a job is destroyed after every update or server change, as exposed here: Modifications intempestives (written more than eight months ago – nobody even bothered to answer).
- But do French-speaking writings matter?... :-/
- Caprineus (talk) 13:55, 19 June 2021 (UTC)
- "But do French-speaking writings matter?" Well, I suppose that depends on who you ask. I would hope they matter to other French-speaking people and writers. I still don't have e-mail yet. Yeah, the upgrades do mess things up a bit but there is no way around that.
- Etenne
- Thank you for answering.
- The true problem is: when Wikipedia runs an update of MediaWiki, all features already installed are kept and perform correctly; but when BoyWiki is updated, almost all features created by a tech are suppressed. Why?
- This is not "messing things up a bit", but destroying things a lot. :-( As I said before, when contributors see this, they are disheartened.
- I hope you can contact somebody who steps in on this wrong update process. As for me, I know nobody, and can do nothing: my only competence is to write about cultural boy-love topics. If "there is no way around" to keep my job in a good state and appearance, well... I will finally recognize that I was wrong to spend so much time and energy for it. :-(((
- Caprineus (talk) 22:48, 20 June 2021 (UTC)
- Etenne
Messages from Eskimo
Hello Etenne
I will be posting under this header any message I have for your consideration, I will delete old messages to make it more readable.
--Eskimo (talk) 12:48, 27 October 2022 (UTC)
- yes you were absolutely right, that worked. Now, any guesses on getting Extension:TimedMediaHandler to work?
Etenne 
20:32, 20 June 2022 (UTC)
Hello Etenne
Regarding getting Extension:TimedMediaHandler to work, can you post an example page or description of what the problem is? I can spend sometime on the Internet trying to track it down and report back if I find anything replicated.
--Eskimo (talk) 13:35, 10 August 2022 (UTC)
Categories
Hi Etenne, I am happy that you are happy with my work! I know that I can put pages into categories!
Gimli2001
