Talk:Etenne

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• Talk:Etenne/subpage1

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To all users

It would be a good idea to review this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Neutral_point_of_view

In short, the neutrality of point of view leads to an objective, "scientific" discourse, whereas non-neutrality leads to one-sided views and propaganda.

An important point is perhaps to understand that specific sympathies are not incompatible with a neutral point of view: you can like a country, a person, an amorous preference, and nevertheless be able of an objective discourse about it.

Only objectivity is credible. That's why it is vital for BoyWiki. We don't "promote", we explain and illustrate. --Etenne (talk) 12:25, 4 March 2015 (UTC)

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Please ask yourself before hitting the post button

1. Dose this have a cultural or historical relavance to boylove?
2. By posting this are you going to make Etenne lose sleep?

To all BoyWiki users:Naming

The convention for naming pages is that articles should be singular whereas categories should be plural.

• Names of topics and topic categories should be singular, normally corresponding to the name of a BoyWiki. article. Examples: "Law" (which represents a body of knowledge), "France", "George W. Bush".

• Names of set categories should be plural. Examples: "Writers", "Villages in Poland".

However, I am willing to hear counter arguments to this practice or suggestions before deciding what the policy should be --Etenne (talk) 13:17, 25 March 2015 (UTC)

Just yesterday I noticed that Wikipedia has categories with a singular title, e.g. wikipedia:Category:Vagina. Also, there are some plural article titles, e.g.wikipedia:Jews. Lysander (talk) 15:13, 25 March 2015 (UTC)

You can't figure out what those two (obvious, at least, to me) errors are due to? Uh... You certainly make up in glibness what you lack in perspicacity. User4 (talk) 02:37, 26 March 2015 (UTC)

Enlighten me. Lysander (talk) 03:16, 26 March 2015 (UTC)

Hey! You didn't enlighten me about what those two errors are due to. Lysander (talk) 04:10, 28 March 2015 (UTC)

Deletion summaries

So that users browsing RecentChanges can tell at a glance what is going on, and so that posterity browsing through Special:Logs/delete without knowledge of what's happening on the wiki now can understand the reasons why, I recommend using informative deletion summaries. Revising MediaWiki:Deletereason-dropdown to list the most common deletion reasons, if it doesn't already, can be a way to do this without putting in a lot of effort. Thanks, Lysander (talk) 02:16, 26 March 2015 (UTC)

There, Etenne, are you happy now?

Almost two hours of my life shot to hell writing BoyLovers_and_their_travels_around_the_world. And now my fingers are aching, I'm so hungry I could even eat a Big Mac, and if I don't go and piss soon, my eyes are going to turn yellow! I sure hope it was all worth it! User4 (talk) 22:31, 27 March 2015 (UTC)

Defining boylove

It's been said that love "is a short word, easy to spell, difficult to define, and impossible to live without." It's such an elusive and complicated concept that the Greeks came up with many different words to describe its different forms, including agápe, éros, philia, storge, (philo)xenia, latreia, etaireia, eusplahneia, omoria, pathos, pothos and piste.

There are prostitutes who put love and respect into their care for their clients, and clients who are the same way toward their prostitutes. I knew a prostitute whose customers would blow up their (the prostitute was androgynous and genderqueer) phone all the time, even after they left the area, because the clients got addicted/attached to that particular prostitute. On the other hand, there are couples, whose sexual relationships aren't considered commercial, who don't treat each other with much love and respect.

It's a great step in the right direction to not look down on other people for having relationships with people outside their age group. But what about also not looking down on people for having commercial sexual relationships? Are we going to define love in such a way as to exclude those relationships from qualifying as "loving"?

Sad to say, some guys are lonely and can't find anyone who will have sex with them unless they're helping out that person financially. That's as close an experience as they get to love. And maybe it would even fall under some of those Greek categories of love.

They don't want to exploit anyone; they just want human touch and affection. And maybe some of them also have an attraction to young people. Are they bad people for having all those qualities? In many western countries, society has set up all sorts of divisions between the generations so that it's hard to have access to kids unless you're a family member, teacher, etc. or you engage in risky activities such as looking for kids online. Therefore, it's understandable that some people wanting to have sexual relationships with children (whether long-term or short-term) would go to other countries, where young and older people mingle more freely. Lysander (talk) 22:58, 27 March 2015 (UTC)

Would you please advise the other editors

Would you please advise the other editors not to edit my contributions until I have had a chance to work on them myself for awhile?

I understand all the "edited unmercifully" stuff, but still -- when I create an article I should have the right to work on it awhile without others jumping in and making major modifications, shouldn't I? If I were to do the same to some of the absolute **** being created by others recently, I'm afraid it would be "likely to cause problems" -- something that I'm sure we all wish to avoid. No? User4 (talk) 03:57, 28 March 2015 (UTC)

You could use Template:Inuse or something. Or create it in the draft namespace or your userspace and then move it. By the way, you could've come to me directly, and I would've told you the same thing, which might have resolved this without needing to involve a third person. Lysander (talk) 04:09, 28 March 2015 (UTC)

Learned helplessness

One of our editors seems determined, by his article submissions, to foster Learned Helplessness among visitors to BoyWiki.

This is "providing aid and assistance to the enemy," and goes against the very reason that BoyWiki exists!

Is treason "sufficient cause" for excluding such an editor?

User4 (talk) 15:08, 28 March 2015 (UTC)

I'm getting really sick of this jerk

He moves things around without asking first.

He renames things at his whim (to incorrect names)

He creates articles that harm BoyWiki, and give BoyLovers a bad name.

He edits the text of other users' comments. (YOU could have moved my comment from that "Frank" page, but you didn't. He decided he knows better than you.)

He has vandalized a number of my pages already, either removing material that is actually relevant, or doing other stupid and absurd things.

He has made himself into a new Sysop here - he does whatever he wants to do. And, no, some of what he does CANNOT be "undone". Where is the stuff he removed from the O'Carrol "Radical case" book article? It appears to be gone forever -- I spent 2 hours trying to find it. It is GONE!

And, to top it all, I now refuse to read whatever comments he makes. He does not respond to questions from me, he changes the topic instead of responding, he refuses to admit when he makes a mistake (and he makes a lot of mistakes), etc. etc. So, reading (or responding) to his comments (for the most part) is a complete waste of time.

TELL THAT ASSHOLE TO KEEP HIS FUCKING HANDS OFF OF MY SUBMISSIONS!

• • User4 (talk) 18:01, 28 March 2015 (UTC)

It would have been nicer if you had said "I'm getting really sick of this user's behavior". Also, if you wanted to provide a deletion rationale on the page itself (rather than its talk page), you should've done that as a parameter to a suitable template, e.g. Template:Prod or Template:Delete.

Unfortunately, I'm now pretty much wiki-homeless. I have nowhere to go, where (1) I haven't been kicked off, and (2) my content is within the project scope. Basically, what happens is, I get labelled as being part of group X, and therefore group Y doesn't like me because group Y hates group X; but group X will say "we don't like him either; he's not really one of us and we don't want to be associated with him."

It kinda reminds me of NAMBLA. Homophobes hate NAMBLA because the Bible says sex between males is bad. But the mainstream gay movement hates NAMBLA too, because they don't want to be associated with pedophilia. Everyone else who might otherwise be sympathetic to NAMBLA just ignores them because they figure, "I better not defend them, or people will think I'm one of them." Lysander (talk) 18:12, 28 March 2015 (UTC)

Scribunto

Brad Jorsch writes, "Lua is particularly well-designed for sandboxing, and was thoroughly reviewed by Tim Starling, who is one of the WMF's top security and performance experts, as part of the process of developing Scribunto. When using the standalone interpreter, only a simple "server" runs in the full environment; most Scribunto code is loaded in a sandbox that has all "dangerous" functions removed, and user code is further loaded in another sandbox within the sandbox. When using the luasandbox PHP extension, the "dangerous" functions are not loaded into the Lua interpreter in the first place, and user code is still loaded within an inner sandbox.

"With the standalone interpreter, memory and CPU time limits are enforced using Linux's ulimit mechanism, while with the luasandbox PHP extension they are built into the extension itself. As for "The same thing can be done using a s[i]mpler template that could be written without this extension", if that's actually true for your situation then you may not actually need Scribunto. But on Wikipedia and other WMF projects, there were many templates (particularly things like "substr") that are now much faster and simpler with Scribunto, and there are other things that have been done with Scribunto that were effectively impossible before." Lysander (talk) 23:21, 29 March 2015 (UTC)

RE: Usefulness of the new article, "Issues in Child Abuse Accusations (with abstracts) "

If someone should happen to have an interest in legal issues surrounding so-called "child abuse," then this list provide a plethora of (relatively) unbiased articles which can be drawn upon when creating new articles for BoyWiki -- articles which would then be of value to BoyWiki.

Instead of so much of the recent crap that has been recently added as "legal articles". ;)

• User4 (talk) 01:15, 30 March 2015 (UTC)

How about a little rationality here with regards to all these recent "bits and pieces" articles?

How come all those little these bits and pieces about "child porn" and "child trafficking" etc. etc. that have been appearing on BoyWiki lately, and which claim (without being warranted) to have the status of "articles" (though they contain very little information of any real value), are not simply incorporated into the main Child abuse article or the Child pornography article, where they really belong?

And, BTW, does that annoying "You have new messages from another user" thing ever just go away? I mean, in the morning my alarm clock eventually stops ringing when I ignore it. I think that message should just go away, too, if I ignore it and don't read any of those messages.

• User4 (talk) 11:18, 30 March 2015 (UTC)

Merging and redirecting is always an option. As for the notification, just click on it and then navigate away without reading the messages. Lysander (talk) 18:21, 30 March 2015 (UTC)

"You don't need to have any experience in making Web sites or writing HTML: it's as easy as making a post on your favorite message board."

RE: Correct namespaces

What do you want - valuable articles that get people thinking and learning, or crap that is "in the correct name space" but doesn't? Huh?

I'll make a deal with you - I'll write the good stuff, and you deal with the "namespaces," OK?

And tell that yo-yo that snide remarks are not in the best interest of BoyWiki, especially when coming from someone who contributes little of real value but directs those snide remarks at someone who does "add value" to BoyWiki.

(Move log); 05:09 . . Lysander (Talk | contribs) moved page USER4/DRAFT/Save our children from the abnormfoodexuals! to User:User4/DRAFT/Save our children from the abnormfoodexuals! ‎(another failure to get the namespace and username correct (it's case sensitive))

Hey -- "User4 posts good, like a user should."

So what do you want - good grammar or good articles?

• User4 (talk) 04:25, 31 March 2015 (UTC)

Essays, articles, and dummies who criticize others without thinking first...

• "Lysander (Talk | contribs)‎ (Created page with "Who wrote this? User4? There should be an essay box template used that gives attribution and lets the user know at a glance that they're reading an essay rather than anything.."

This (what he probably considers to be a valid) "comment" about what is (very obviously -- as well as categorized as such) an essay demonstrates that at least one of our "users" here is not "all on the ball"...

"Who wrote this?" he asks "User4?"

It seems he doesn't even know how to view the "history" page of articles, either.

Why doesn't that user fix all the many many many problems with the (so-called) "articles" that he has submitted, before criticizing the submissions of others? That "Frank" junk article he submitted is still full of errors, none of which (I believe) he has corrected yet.

• User4 (talk) 19:13, 31 March 2015 (UTC)

Oh, and by the way...

• https://www.google.bg/search?q=Thomas+Frank+mexico+boys&sa=G&gbv=1&sei=tgkbVaLPBsvzaq6ZgeAF

Now, what is still wrong with his Frank article?

• User4 (talk) 20:58, 31 March 2015 (UTC)

I'm confused, so if there's anything in that article that can be fixed, please fix it; otherwise, I guess we can just delete it. Lysander (talk) 21:17, 31 March 2015 (UTC)

Capitalization of article titles

There is and/or has been confusion regarding what should be the "correct" capitalization of words within titles of articles, particularly when the article is about a publication such as a book. A large number of redirects have been created.

This means that links to articles may become "broken" should these redirects be deleted. This then requires that a large number of articles be edited to fix the "broken links". This problem also makes articles look unprofessional -- the visitors expect given links to function, and when the links do not function, the editor of the article appears incompetent. How can we avoid these kinds of problems?

• • User4 (talk) 12:43, 2 April 2015 (UTC)

By fixing, rather than deleting, double redirects. Also, we should establish a site-wide standard concerning capitalization, if it doesn't exist already. Lysander (talk) 15:59, 2 April 2015 (UTC)

(Potentially) Dangerous changes made by (perhaps) unwitting pseudo-sysops

The following could be an extremely serious threat to the personal security of visitors who do not understand how e-mail works, how their IP address can be collected and compromised, and how LEO gather information.

https://www.boywiki.org/en/User:Lysander/EmailAllChanges

I suggest that a tech person (who -- I know -- is unavailable) immediately review the wisdom of BoyWiki endangering visitors with this kind of "honeypot"-type facility.

THIS IS NOT A JOKE!

This is very dangerous! And there should be a review of the access to editing rights of any user who attempts this kind of thing on BoyWiki without first consulting with the sysop!

• User4 (talk) 23:29, 3 April 2015 (UTC)

Well, no changes have been made. No one can make changes to the software with out access to the server. Believe me no one is going to make dangerous changes to the wiki and BTW, the wiki doesn't even record your IP. If a mistake was made, all someone would see is a random number --Etenne (talk) 23:48, 3 April 2015 (UTC)

What is this website's stance on pedophilia and sexual attractions to prepubscents?

He, What is this website's stance on pedophilia and sexual attraction toward prepubescents? I would like to know. Thank s.. Lister34 (talk) 03:57, 4 April 2015 (UTC)

That a boylover is a boylover. I try to make BoyWiki as inclusive as I can however as an Ephebophile, BoyWiki very likely over represents my POV. --Etenne (talk) 09:13, 4 April 2015 (UTC)

This day in gay history

This link gives hits to a blog that gives info perhaps useful to your Date entries:

• https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&source=hp&q=%22THIS+DAY+IN+GAY+HISTORY%22++site%3Ahttps%3A%2F%2Fmasteradrian.wordpress.com%2F&btnG=Google+Search&gbv=1
• User4 (talk) 02:31, 6 April 2015 (UTC)

Templates

One way to encourage people to finish articles that were left in an untidy state is to use maintenance templates, which will automatically categorize those pages. Then when people are bored, they can look through those categories for stuff in need of more work. Lysander (talk) 02:37, 6 April 2015 (UTC)

Please stop right now and take a look at this immediately -- Thanks.

https://www.boywiki.org/en/Pederastic_relationships_in_history_TEST

• User4 (talk) 11:50, 6 April 2015 (UTC)

Yes, thank you. I can use that as some of the references are somewhat confusing for my old brain (without something to reference myself). I can merge the two. --Etenne (talk) 12:01, 6 April 2015 (UTC)

I (almost) hesitate to add that I fixed all the 240+ references in that article I did in only about an hour and a half of work (and taking into account that I'm in a dead tired zombie state right now), while you have spent days on your version. How about I teach you some better editing techniques, huh?

• User4 (talk) 12:27, 6 April 2015 (UTC)

I forgot to add this -- I can fix all the links to point to the original article (hoping that it will remain on the internet) and readers will be able to see all the other material the article references (and some of that information does need to be extracted and integrated into our article, too).

• User4 (talk) 12:34, 6 April 2015 (UTC)

THERE HAS ALSO BEEN PREPARED A PDF VERSION OF THIS FILE, AVAILABLE AT:

HISTORICAL PEDERASTIC RELATIONSHIPS.pdf (283kB)

• https://anonfiles.com/file/ba91001bdf68e05a277c79da4c28c633

... that may be useful to you Etenne when editing, and perhaps as a supplement for folks to download.

• User4 (talk) 13:03, 6 April 2015 (UTC)

Etenne, please talk to me about editing techniques. I hate to see you spend time doing unnecessary work when your time can be spent better on other things, OK?

• User4 (talk) 20:06, 7 April 2015 (UTC)

You keep saying that but you don't add anything about editing techniques... I assume they are not top secret?:) --Etenne (talk) 20:08, 7 April 2015 (UTC)

I had a bunch of notes prepared in response, and some links as well, but the links were bad (sites were down or have vanished from the Internet) and while researching to find archived copies of those things (which took about an hour of my time), I then overloaded my system and it crashed. A reboot was necessary. When I came back online, I ran across some other things that were fairly quick and easy to do (you saw the new articles) so I went ahead and did those as I felt they were very important, interesting, and useful for visitors.

Are you going to use

*https://www.boywiki.org/en/Pederasty_in_ancient_Greece

If so, I can use that as an example of easier editing with regards to fixing the note refs.

• User4 (talk) 15:08, 8 April 2015 (UTC)

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Are you going to use

*https://www.boywiki.org/en/Pederasty_in_ancient_Greece

Yes, no, maybe... right now, I have more to do that I will ever have time to finish.

So feel free to use that as an example.--Etenne (talk) 16:13, 8 April 2015 (UTC)

OK. First you need the really great (free) editor Notetab.exe, but the NoteTab light free version.

It only works if you are using Microsoft Windows. If you are not then it becomes more complicated -- you need to install Wine on a Unix system to use it.

There is a copy here:

http://www.keepandshare.com/doc/view.php?id=7535721&da=y

but it is NOT a .ZIP file, it is the NoteTab light setup file. It has been renamed to a .ZIP file because that site does not allow .EXE files. So it was renamed.

The site of the creator of the NoteTab programs -- NoteTab pro and NotTabe light -- is for some reason not available. Here is a link to their archived site which tells about their product:

• http://web.archive.org/web/20150331003554/http://www.notetab.com/

Download the file (NT.ZIP) from the keepandshare link above, and rename it to NoteTab_Light_Setup.exe. Then run the .EXE file to install NoteTab Light on your computer.

Are you with me so far?

• User4 (talk) 17:18, 8 April 2015 (UTC)

Aren't there a lot of better alternatives? I like Notepad++. On Ubuntu, I use Komodo Edit. Lysander (talk) 17:47, 8 April 2015 (UTC)

Tell me what is next on your agenda to do, OK?

You should download the NoteTab light program as I said. There's another one (right up your alley!) called Editeur.exe (C'est très bien, mon ami!) but it only works in Windows XP and not later versions. But how can I advise you if you won't give me feedback!

• User4 (talk) 21:02, 8 April 2015 (UTC)

Thank you

It is kind of you to clean up the material I am importing. The fact is that my eyesight has grown a lot weaker since the days I was editing Wikipedia, and I just do not have the stamina to spend long hours at the screen in the evening, as I did then. One request, I would like someone to bring in THIS image from wikipedia for the Athenian pederasty article I just uploaded: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/d/dc/Love_gift_-_Calyx_krater_Aegisthos_painter_ca_460_BCE.jpg

Also, as an alternative to deleting the categories at the end of the articles, they could be created here in this wiki.

Another idea to discuss with the others. The English predominance of this wiki is perhaps not in anyone's best interest. Would you consider renaming it Paiswiki? It is also less ostentatious when working on it at the local cafe. Call that the "Starbucks test." Someone should be able to stare at your screen and have no idea what the hell you are doing. Haiduc (talk) 23:04, 8 April 2015 (UTC)

I think we already have that image. I will look for it and if not I will add it tomorrow. According to some the name is already Etenne wiki:)--Etenne (talk) 23:43, 8 April 2015 (UTC)

here it is File:AEGISTHOS PAINTER -460c Love gift (Kunsthistorisches Museum Wien IV-1102) 852x1030.jpg

Tools an editor needs to save time

OK. First you need the really great (free) editor Notetab.exe, but the NoteTab light free version.

It only works if you are using Microsoft Windows. If you are not then it becomes more complicated -- you need to install Wine on a Unix system to use it.

There is a copy here:

http://www.keepandshare.com/doc/view.php?id=7535721&da=y

but it is NOT a .ZIP file, it is the NoteTab light setup file. It has been renamed to a .ZIP file because that site does not allow .EXE files. So it was renamed.

The site of the creator of the NoteTab programs -- NoteTab pro and NotTabe light -- is for some reason not available. Here is a link to their archived site which tells about their product:

http://web.archive.org/web/20150331003554/http://www.notetab.com/

Download the file (NT.ZIP) from the keepandshare link above, and rename it to NoteTab_Light_Setup.exe. Then run the .EXE file to install NoteTab Light on your computer.

Are you with me so far?

User4 (talk) 17:18, 8 April 2015 (UTC)

I can take you step-by-step through fixing this new article

This is the "raw" conversion:

https://www.boywiki.org/en/Pederasty_in_the_modern_world

We can do the article together (how romantic!) and you can see how it is done. OK?

• User4 (talk) 16:24, 9 April 2015 (UTC)

I just dug up the original, at time of deletion. Check it out, it should make your lives easier. Haiduc (talk) 00:10, 10 April 2015 (UTC)

Do you have an text editor that handles carriage returns (CR) and line feed (LF) in search/replace functions?

If for some reason you don't want to download the NoteTab light program linked to above, before I put in all the time to search for an alternative, I need to know if you have some such editor, which would help immensely in your editing of files for BoyChat. I also have noticed that you have not responded to earlier posts of mine here on your talk page, and I can't help but wonder if there is any specific reason for that.

• User4 (talk) 19:15, 10 April 2015 (UTC)

It's not that... just like you, I have been very busy in the last few days and I don't see it getting any better for at least a week. Plus with my recent health problems, it's not been a fun time for me. One of the BoyWiki admins just pointed out to me that on fr.boywiki there are a few entries on Japan that could be translated and added... which he feels are better qulity then what we have now... how's your french? :)

• --Etenne (talk) 19:26, 10 April 2015 (UTC)

I have a way with languages... part of my "magic" you might say... Links, please? (I hope the articles are not very long... I'd really like to finish some other stuff I'm in the middle of)...

• User4 (talk) 20:12, 10 April 2015 (UTC)

• https://www.boywiki.org/fr/Japon
• https://www.boywiki.org/fr/Chigo
• https://www.boywiki.org/fr/Chigo_monogatari
• https://www.boywiki.org/fr/Wakashudō

The Japan article is in your hands now, at least for the magic that you can do that I don't know how to. I won't touch it until you finish fixing what you can, OK?

• User4 (talk) 20:59, 10 April 2015 (UTC)

Happy now? Do I get a cookie for being a good boy?

• User4 (talk) 21:30, 10 April 2015 (UTC)

Yes, it looks like I am going to be in Japan for a few days to correct the code and then I need to go back and read the original French and correct some of the translation errors. And to be quite frank, my French is getting a bit rusty as I don't use it as much as I should. --Etenne (talk) 10:43, 11 April 2015 (UTC)

You may want to open each of the following URLs in a separate browser tab, along with the English BoyWiki Japan page in another for editing. If you want, I can fix the translation errors -- I may be faster at fixing them than you (or you may be faster at that than I am -- I don't really know).

• https://www.boywiki.org/fr/Japon
• https://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=1&hl=en&ie=UTF8&prev=_t&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=fr&tl=en&u=https://www.boywiki.org/fr/Japon&usg=ALkJrhi_j-slEgWDmbCf0mGFbVM4XQEH-A
• User4 (talk) 12:46, 11 April 2015 (UTC)

Questioning the wisdom of encouraging users to reveal their e-mail addresses to BoyWiki (and potentially, to LEO)

Were this implemented, users could inadvertently expose themselves to being "outed".

https://www.boywiki.org/en/User:Lysander/EmailAllChanges

If you're going to question that, then what about Special:RequestAccount, which also has an optional e-mail address field? Lysander (talk) 02:57, 13 April 2015 (UTC)

Hack to avoid Wikipedia harvesting of IP addresses of BoyWiki readers who follow external links

Unintended consequences: disabling the {{w|}} template just corrupted the text of I-don't-know-how-many pages.

Here's an example:

• Here is a test sentence containing an imbedded link to the wikipedia article on {{w|test}} to demonstrate the new problem of text corruption.
• Here is a test sentence containing an imbedded link to the wikipedia article on test to demonstrate the new problem of text corruption.

I just did a quick check and there may be over 130 instances of the text corruption problem in various articles (not 130 articles, but 130 instances).

Linking can be made safe. See how I did the "External links" on the following page:

• https://www.boywiki.org/en/Sociogenesis

Sociogenesis or Sociogenesis

BoyWiki Russian roulette, one of these is an internal link and one is an external link (can you tell the difference?) make a choice. --Etenne (talk) 02:38, 13 April 2015 (UTC)

I see the difference. What do you suggest doing about it? User4 (talk) 02:59, 13 April 2015 (UTC)

130 instances exactly... if there were only a few it would be less of a problem but this is out of hand... --Etenne (talk) 02:50, 13 April 2015 (UTC)

Yes, it's a serious problem, if Wikipedia is harvesting the IP addresses of those following embedded links. If you take BW offline, edit the exported .XML file of the entire site, then import it, you could fix the problem in an hour or two instead of taking days.

• User4 (talk) 02:59, 13 April 2015 (UTC)

Etenne, when it comes to security for Internet users, either something is a serious problem that must be addressed or it is not a problem. There is nothing in-between.

Either we take all possible steps to stop Wikipedia (and other sites) from detecting that the visitor to their site has clicked a link in a BoyWiki article, and prevent them from IP address harvesting, or else we don't worry about it at all. There is no "middle ground" on this.

So, which is it?

• User4 (talk) 04:42, 13 April 2015 (UTC)

Would referer hiding solve this problem? I could write an extension, if necessary, to implement this on all external links. By the way, one of the downsides of using external links instead of interwiki links is that it trips the CAPTCHA each time. Lysander (talk) 05:24, 13 April 2015 (UTC)

I believe the modifications that Lysander has made to Template:W are sufficient to solve the problem. People can now see that it is an external link and can make a choice as to whether they want to click on it or not. Again, I want to stress that the use of this template within a paragraph text is not the best editing practice and I would give preference to making internal links or if necessary use [1] or make the link a reference. --Etenne (talk) 10:20, 13 April 2015 (UTC)

I notice too, from this page, that it's the browser that sends the HTTP referer header. So the user can set up their browser to not send these headers even if we don't use rel=noreferrer. It's also possible to use this hack. By the way, interwiki links on most wikis are a slightly different color than regular wikilinks, so I wonder if BoyWiki has a non-standard setup with regard to that? There might be a way to fix that issue, e.g. by changing the CSS. Lysander (talk) 20:04, 13 April 2015 (UTC)

A few interesting graphic files you may want to use on BW are at commons.wikimedia.org

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Pederasty

• User4 (talk) 01:46, 15 April 2015 (UTC)

Pederasty in Ancient Greece - World Heritage Encyclopedia™ licensed under CC BY-SA

• Pederasty in Ancient Greece

Sourced from World Heritage Encyclopedia™ licensed under CC BY-SA 3.0

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3365380

• Seems high quality
• Seems unbiased
• Seems "open source" (creative commons) and therefore quotable.

http://self.gutenberg.org/articles/Pederasty_in_ancient_Greece

• User4 (talk) 02:44, 15 April 2015 (UTC)

I got a little farther and I saw this :(

On the one hand, the practice of pederasty is ancient and is still acceptable in some cultures. On the other hand, we cannot turn a blind eye to the fact that pederastic relationships are, more often than not, extremely traumatic to children. It is obvious that pederasts and pedophiles take advantage of and exploit young children, and we feel obligated to put an end to what we consider to be a heinous practice. Nevertheless, the practice of pederasty continues to flourish (and grow) in a lot of places, and there doesn't seem to be an end in sight.

So is is not as "unbiased" as I thought. Still, it has some good information.

• User4 (talk) 02:56, 15 April 2015 (UTC)

Please caution BoyWiki "users" to be more careful when creating and removing redirects

A number of links have been broken by users (editors) who carelessly create (and remove) redirects. Broken links damage the credibility of BoyWiki in the minds of visitors, something that is to be avoided at all cost, in my opinion. Yes, damage done by incompetent or thoughtless users can be undone, but only after the damage has been noted, which may not occur quickly, if ever.

We should try to appear professional in our articles whenever possible (essays aside).

• User4 (talk) 12:25, 16 April 2015 (UTC)

I don't know why you go to such great lengths to deliberately alienate volunteers who give their time freely to BoyWiki.

It is really counterproductive, not to mention damaging to BoyWiki. I don't know why you do it, unless you, in some way, wish to deliberately sabotage BoyWiki. User4 (talk) 00:17, 17 April 2015 (UTC)