User:Lysander/Disunity between BLs and GLs

Comment

Etenne writes:

“

AHH, but you have to keep in mind that we are a noble lot, we BL's, who share a cultural continuity going back to the very dawn of recorded history. We are idealists and moralists in the Greek tradition. Though most BL's nowadays tend to deny any connection to the Gay community mainly because of their alliance with the feminists Lesbians and because of political disagreements in the gay rights movement.... we still tend to be fabulous:)

”

Response

An anonymous prisoner, Drake, responds:

“

I get disheartened whenever I hear pedosexuals refer to themselves as BLs. To me, that isolated identity is the same "Let's just worry about ourselves, and try to go it alone" attitude as the rest of the homosexual community had in choosing to disassociate themselves from the BLs. Only when gays and lesbians stood together, and adopted the trannies and bisexuals, did LGBT-rights become real. But they cut loose one of their most, if not the most, controversial minorities, forcing them to fend for themselves. This is why pedosexuals don't enjoy the same rights as the LGBTs. Now they're doing the same thing with the girllovers and "child-lovers" or bisexual pedosexuals. "We'll argue for our cause, remember the 3,500 year old roots of our cause. To hell with the straight or bi pedos." Never mind that men fucking young girls has been going on since the dawn of humanity! In every culture on earth! They don't argue for GL rights or nobility, or the continuity of GL culture. They disassociate because of a prejudice, a discrimination against those whom they view as separate. Just as their gay "older brother" groups cut them off for being "wrong" or politically dangerous, they cut off the GLs and CLs for being not-gay. When I start hearing people who like exclusively young boys argue about the nobility and culture of childlove in general, or pedosexuality in general, and not specifying the gayness aspect, then I'll think that we are close to seeing a paradigm shift.

”

Replies

Etenne writes in reply to anonymous prisoner Drake:

“

We BL's have a long memory and it wasn't too long ago that GL's stood right beside their teleiophile heterosexual brothers with their torches and pitchforks in hand. Old grudges die hard, even given the present moral panic we collectively must endure. Most BL's will never see themselves as anything more then the most tentative and uncomfortable allies of GL's. Plus of course, there are psychological and sociological reasons why, especially under the present social conditions, that GL and CL's to a large extent are seen as outsiders. I would argue that the more we are threatened by outside forces the more BL's are likely to close ranks and view all non-BL's with mistrust.

”

Another anonymous prisoner, Oberon, replies:

“

I read Drake's little rant about BLs and their "othering". I do agree with Drake's rant up to a point. The problem or differences between the two groups shows up in numbers. Something like 3% of boys have any long lasting negative effects where the number is like 12% for females. At the time of interaction about 3% of males say they remember the experience as negative, where females report about 50% of them remember it as negative. About 33% of males remember it as positive where only about 20% of females did. The others saw it as neither positive nor negative. In a study by Baurmann in Germany, the study showed male "victims" were seldom harmed but about 50% of girls reported no harm (what about the other 50%). In the same study, only .6% of males reported violence where females reported 13.5% of their interactions involved violence. Now 12% and 13.5% are not big numbers but why are they so far away from the males (3% and .6%)? So I ask, is there a difference between BL and GL interactions? The numbers suggest there might be. I will say I personally notice a difference between the two groups. BLs seem to share their relationship experiences with each other. This is done more for personal validation that they are not "monsters" of some sort. It seems that most GLs do not share their experience which I can respect the "kiss and don't tell". I seem to encounter more often the repentive GL or the "I would love to hit that pussy" from GL not to say it is not within the BL groups but less so it seems. I would like to stress that not everyone fits in these molds. I have met GLs who seem to care about the relationship more than the sex but since there are more GLs than BLs why is this group not bigger? Within the true BL groups, mentoring is also a part of the relationship wherein many GLs feel the female is a replacement for a wife, someone beneath the male in their proper place, where BLs hope the male exceeds them as they grow older. I know maybe two or three GLs that are closer to the goals of a BL in what they are looking for in a relationship. I believe that those GLs would be part of the 20% of females who would look back on their experience as positive instead of the 50% that would remember it as negative. I would ask Drake, since there are more GLs than BLs, why is there not a more positive movement within the GLs that BLs could attach themselves with? Also, many GLs also have a problem with BLs because many are involved with same sex relationships with the exception of the few female BLs out there. I am guessing that Drake is reacting more to the fact that people like Sandfort or even Hunter or people on Boychat are more active in a community movement to allow their desired lifestyle to be accepted. One of the big factors in being accepted is the low level of harm reported from woman-boy or man-boy relationships compared to man-girl relationships (woman-girl relationships seen more positive again with some level of mentoring); woman-girl seems low also but the number of those types of relationships seems very, very small. You know, all the time I knew Drake he never talked about any relationship he was in or what he would want out of a relationship. Although he talked about the subject, he very rarely made it personal about him. Drake is a bit of a narcissist which does not make him a bad guy but any relationship he was in, I would think would have to be about him primarily which is not a good starting place for a healthy relationship, no matter the person's age. I have said it before: the studies show positive relationships are possible, so all CLs should look to how these positive relationships are formed, because if the risk of allowing too many negative relationships to exist is too great, I would not blame society in not accepting any. It is not fair to those who build positive relationships but I can understand the general Jane's position on this. I try to not "other" too much, but let's have some positive literature come from the GL community that is not based on biblical references (beliefs). I am also of the belief that the only way the situation for society as a whole can improve is if there can be some open dialog without infighting and the other group being vilified.

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Oberon continues:

“

I might have ranted a bit harsh. It's not that I do not stand by what I said. I do believe BL and GL in general approach the whole relationship differently. I also believe that females tend to see themselves as victims more than males, so they are more likely to point fingers and blame. That is one reason I have always said it is important to empower youths and for adults to respect that empowerment. It will be the only way in a society like ours that CL will be acceptable so when a youth says "No" or "Not anymore" that wish is respected. It is really "It's my body and I have the right to say No" mentality. Of course, I also believe they have the right to say "Yes" but the "Yes" should be said without coercion. Can a GL respect there might be a time to let go, that the other person has the right to say "Not anymore" or will they have a need to possess the other person to keep them submissive. Bono and Cher is a good example. As Cher got older she became her own person but Bono wanted her to stay his young lover, his little girl. Cher was a strong enough person and broke off the relationship because Bono would not respect her need to grow up to be her own person. My cellie made a point that it is easier for BLs to do that because there really comes a point that a young male becomes a man. He looks like a man and a young male. Females do not change appearances much. Yes, their hips get wider and they can get breasts, but they are very feminine which is closer to being androgynous where young males are more androgynous and move away from that to be often times more masculine. Again I am talking in general. The thing is there are many more GLs out there than BLs. Yet they are less inclined to gather and discuss being a community or that it can be noble to appreciate the abilities and thoughts of a young person to see them as something that is beautiful and full of future potential as a person. I am not saying that BLs are all so noble not to notice and appreciate the young male form but that is just a part of the attraction. Males may not get all lovey dovey (although some do) with the YF but we care very much for them and wish to see them succeed in life to reach a full potential not just some helpmate. The YF truly becomes a friend at least for most BLs. So where are the GirlChat or Girl Wikia pages expressing this. What is it that GL want out of a relationship with a younger person, ultimately?

”