Talk:Etenne

Civil disobedience

I seem to recall, there was some guy who wanted to make a point about how the definitions of what is child pornography are vague and keep getting expanded, so he went to his local police station, turned in some item of possible evidence, and said something to the effect of "Here's some stuff I have that might count as child pornography." He might have been a politician; I can't remember. Does this sound familiar at all; do you remember who it was? Anyway, I wanted to write an article on civil disobedience, and that type of situation is the main example relevant to boylove that I know of. It could also be considered a test case. Sorry I don't remember more details; if I did, I'd probably be able to find a news article about it. Leucosticte (talk) 18:46, 12 May 2014 (CEST)

Yes and No. It sounds familiar to me too but I don't know why. It may have been simply an example someone was using in something I read but did not do it in reality. You might want to make a post to BoyChat asking if anyone remembers or have heard of this. Sorry that I could not be of more help. I like the idea of an entry on civil disobedience... sex offenders refusing to register or pay unjust fees etc.... --Etenne (talk) 20:20, 12 May 2014 (CEST)

I think that it would be helpful if groups of sex offenders were to protest/refuse en masse, rather than as isolated individuals. A mass protest will be more likely to be interpreted by the media and the public as a political act, rather than as simply yet another person's getting caught breaking the law. However, it could be hard to organize since often it's a supervised release violation for sex offenders to associate with one another without permission (see condition 9, USSG §5D1.3). Sex offenders are also sometimes more than willing to snitch on one another; see e.g. this document. I could see one of them informing his probation officer, "These guys were talking about having a protest" and getting them arrested prematurely. Leucosticte (talk) 00:49, 13 May 2014 (CEST)

Quora

I thought you might find this post interesting. Leucosticte (talk) 00:35, 4 June 2014 (CEST)

IBLD

An incarcerated friend wrote to me, "It may not have been Saturday but during our summer solstice ceremony I burnt a blue candle for IBLD. Thanks for the info. To be honest I did not know about it. I have heard of BoyChat but not SafeHaven. I think I used to post on BoyChat as [name omitted]. That was years and years ago. I believe I moved away from that chat because of the wishy-washiness of the chatters. I'll be the first to admit that an intergenerational relationship is first and foremost emotional. But many of the chatters were denying the other aspects of being a BL or saying the emotional part was the only one that mattered and it was better to keep it away from any physical aspect. But that is to say that the physical aspect was not a driving force. It was like saying the only reason husbands and wives; boyfriends and girlfriends should have sex, physical intimacy was for procreation. Sorry, but for guys that physical intimacy is a big part of bonding. My celly just read an article in one of his Spanish magazines that suggests the same for dolphins and bonobos, even saying age or gender was not an issue for sex used for bonding." Leucosticte (talk) 01:58, 4 July 2014 (CEST)

Interesting story, but my first thought was, How could he get a candle in prison? Candles are considered contraband. Happy 4th of July to you and your family Leucosticte.... I hope things are going well for you.--Etenne (talk) 13:39, 4 July 2014 (CEST)

It could have been a contraband candle (I'm not sure exactly how they make those, but they put some kind of flammable chemical in a jar with a wick).(web urbanist) But he probably lit a candle that was made available to the members of the pagan religious program at the prison chapel, under the chaplain's supervision. Happy 4th to you too! Leucosticte (talk) 21:26, 4 July 2014 (CEST)

Landmark Forum

Hey Etenne. I went to a seminar called the Landmark Forum this past weekend. A couple participants went up to the microphone to talk about how they were "abused" as children. One of them was a guy who, 30 years ago, at age 9 had a sexual experience with his 11-year-old brother. The forum leader asked how he felt when that happened, and he said that it felt good. But later he began to wonder if he was gay, and he felt that he didn't fit in, in either the gay or straight communities. The forum leader asked the audience who among us has ever felt, at some time or another, that we didn't fit in anywhere. It seemed like everyone raised their hands.

Anyway, one of the main lessons that the Forum teaches is that there's a difference between what happened and the "story", or interpretation, that people make concerning those events. What happened was that certain body parts went certain places. All the labels that people attach to those events, such as "abuse", "rape", "molestation", etc. are stories. "My brother put his penis in my mouth" is an account of what happened. "My brother abused me" is a story. We are responsible for the stories we make up concerning what happened, the meanings we attach to what happened, and how we let those stories affect us 30 years later.

Someone else went up to the microphone and said that when she was a kid, she was raped for three years by the kids who lived next door. She said that at the time, she didn't realize there was anything wrong with what was happening, but after she told people about it, they told her that she was damaged goods. She said that because of the rape, a gland in her brain responsible for producing neurotransmitters was too small, and she's been struggling with depression ever since. The forum leader said it was because she believed she was damaged goods that she was depressed.

Of course they are going to stop short of saying that sex with children is okay, but it is good to see that people are trying to repair the psychological harm caused by the interpretations people have attached to these childhood sexual activities. I remember a similar event occurred in my church, when a teenage church member revealed that her older brother had "molested" her when they were both prepubescent children. Their father was devastated to hear this, but the pastor asked him, "What would you have done if you had caught him doing it? You would have whipped his butt, told him never to do it again, and that would have been the end of it. You're treating this like a family tragedy, when it isn't." Leucosticte (talk) 06:18, 29 July 2014 (CEST)

Great! Sounds like it was very interesting. Too many people define themselves based on the reinterpretation of events that at the time were innocuous.

--Etenne (talk) 17:18, 29 July 2014 (CEST)

Wikibooks

Hi Etenne, I wonder if there's any reason not to migrate BoyWiki's content over to Wikibooks? Perhaps a "Boylove" book could be created, with the content arranged hierarchically in subpages. I recently created a bunch of suicide-related subpages under wikibooks:Suicide#Methods, and the objections to the content were overruled, in contrast to how the situation was handled over at Wikiversity (see wikiversity:Talk:Suicide). I'm going to ask around and see what the reception would likely be. Thanks, Leucosticte (talk) 01:38, 25 October 2014 (CEST)

I don't have any problems whith the content being added to wikibooks however I would not want you to do all that work for something that just gets deleted.--Etenne (talk) 13:55, 25 October 2014 (CEST)

I think what I'll do instead is narrow my focus to child pornography. I'll work on the book in userspace here, and then copy and paste it over to Wikibooks when it's in decent shape. Leucosticte (talk) 23:41, 28 October 2014 (CET)

Wikis

It seems like NewgonWiki's becoming an archive created kind of a hole in wiki coverage, in that there's nothing in the wikisphere covering intergenerational relationships with adolescent girls, which is ironic since that may be the group of minors to which the largest number of adults feel a romantic or sexual attraction.. I suppose that in retrospect, I should've called ChildWiki "YouthWiki" or something, so that it would cover adolescents as well as children. "Boy" is a term that covers pretty much any male from 0-17 (and even beyond, sometimes; people speak of "college boys" and, although I'm 34, my ex called me a "white boy"). "Child" usually refers to prepubescents; adolescents would probably dislike being called "children" and people who have relationships with them would probably not regard it as "adult-child sex". There could be "adult-youth" sex, I guess. Leucosticte (talk) 21:24, 7 November 2014 (CET)

I suppose you could always add other Wikis to Childwiki in the same way you would add a different language wiki and sort of have a Childlove hub:) Or are you thinking about renaming it to something more encompassing? BTW, your server runs kind of slow. Also can it be accessed using https?--Etenne (talk) 21:46, 7 November 2014 (CET)

Yeah, I use DreamHost, and even though I have a VPS, object caching isn't available. I don't have https; I guess I'd need to buy an IP address for that. I could probably get a better hosting solution from some other company; I just use DreamHost to avoid censorship.

I could name it something more encompassing but the problem with "YouthWiki" is that people might assume that excludes prepubescents, since the youth rights movement typically has only focused on adolescents. Leucosticte (talk) 22:39, 7 November 2014 (CET)

I don't have any ideas for names off the top of my head right now but perhaps you could make a post to GirlChat and they could come up with something. (as well as perhaps attract some users:) --Etenne (talk) 14:15, 8 November 2014 (CET)

I notice that efforts to create and sustain a reasonably large, active GirlWiki failed miserably. The BLs are putting the GLs to shame, as usual. :) 1,000+ articles is pretty good for a non-WMF wiki. Leucosticte (talk) 19:48, 8 November 2014 (CET)

Thanks for the compliments but I feel we can do better:) Plus many of those pages are related to the calender template and chronology. However, I am not dissatisfied with the progress we have been making. I would guess that the difference comes from Boylove having a longer history than girllove in that up until quite recently, girllove was perhaps considered a normal variant of heterosexuality whereas pederasty has almost always been considered as exotic.--Etenne (talk) 21:05, 8 November 2014 (CET)

Server

Hey Etenne, I gotta find a new server, I think. I currently have a DreamHost VPS, and not only is it slow, but it doesn't even load sometimes because it runs out of memory. (Memory costs 5 cents/month per megabyte; right now I'm paying $15/month for 300MB.) Problem is, I got kicked off of HostMonster because someone filed a report of "adult content" (because of text, not pictures). Know any good free speech webhosts? I tried NearlyFreeSpeech.NET, but there a number of technical problems associated with that host (including the fact that PHP has to be run in safe mode). Thanks, Leucosticte (talk) 01:28, 12 November 2014 (CET)

I will look into it. Email me @ etenne@boywiki.org

I increased the amount of memory a bit, so it's working somewhat better now. Still crashes pretty much daily, but then restarts. Leucosticte (talk) 21:20, 21 November 2014 (CET)

WikiIndex

WikiIndex deleted the articles on BoyWiki, ChildWiki, Newgon Wiki, and ChildPorn.info, among other wikis. See http://wikiindex.org/WikiIndex_talk:Community_portal#We_need_to_have_a_community_discussion_about_Nathania.2FNathan_Larson.2FUser:Leucosticte . It seems to me that most wikis that don't have a strong, benevolent dictator end up going down the path WikiIndex is going. They start out being tolerant and inclusive, and then a new cadre of sysops comes into power, after the old guard has left, and sweeps away the users and content that are considered undesirable. One of the sysops there, Hoof Hearted, who had for a long time been the most active user on the wiki, had defended me and my content in the past, but I think his health has been suffering or he's otherwise been less active than before. He hasn't edited in months.

Anyway, it's sad to see them abandoning neutrality on these controversial topics, especially due to pressure from RationalWiki. Leucosticte (talk) 19:18, 21 November 2014 (CET)

Not surprising. Even if they wanted to be more open, it's easy to give in to the pressure since they really don't have a horse in this race. It is easy to turn your head and not see what is right before your eyes.... at least until General Patton comes along and makes you take a walk through the death camps and bury the bodies  :) --Etenne (talk) 23:40, 22 November 2014 (CET)

So, those who don't have a horse in the race don't care, and therefore give in to whatever side makes the most fuss or threatens to make them look bad; and those who do have a horse in the race are considered disqualified from voicing their opinion because they're a bunch of dirty pedophiles with a conflict of interest in the matter. On the other hand, if those who make their living prosecuting child porn offenses, providing government- and defendant-funded treatment to the "victims", and so on, voice their opinions, it's assumed that their motives are pure. Nice. Leucosticte (talk) 01:00, 23 November 2014 (CET)

Someone recently wrote, "Sites that discuss the normalization of child porn and pedophilia are fine in a neutral context, but they tilt heavily in the interest of illegal acts when they start arguing for it, and since I don't believe it is ethically or legally sensible to provide links to sites that argue for the incitement of criminal acts minus any caveats about exercising legal restraint, and having seen BoyWiki and Newgon Wiki, they are only concerned with help pedophiles hide themselves from the law, which is why I would oppose them without question." Leucosticte (talk) 18:51, 6 January 2015 (UTC)

Someone should inform this guy that simply existing and being a pedophile is not against any law. Of course, I would like to challenge this person as to exactly which entry/entries it is talking about since I do not see anything on BoyWiki beyond basic internet security which is a good idea for everyone. I suppose that as long as no one fact-checks his lies that he is good. --Etenne (talk) 12:01, 7 January 2015 (UTC)

Quora

I got this message on Quora today:

“

Hello You are being blocked for one month because your questions, in aggregate, are creating a hostile pattern of content that many users are reporting as harassing and hostile to certain groups of people. These are the type of questions which are considered problematic: - Does the illegal possession and distribution of child pornography encourage people to abuse children so they can create porn for others' use? - If you're an adult, is it illegal to, via the Internet, ask a minor you met online to meet you somewhere, if you don't make any suggestions or proposals of a sexual nature? Quora is very committed to ensuring it is a safe and welcoming place for all good contributors and we require that users are judicious when asking questions that could be perceived as sexist, racist or harmful to minors. Quora Admin

”

I was a bit disappointed, since Quora seemed like one of the few mainstream online communities in which it was still safe to ask edgy questions. It seems like feminists don't really want a debate; they want to shut down the opposing side of the debate. We have places like BoyWiki we can go to, but then people de-list those sites from indexes like WikiIndex to make it harder to find.

I don't see admins of sites like Quora being "very committed to ensuring it is a safe and welcoming place" for dissidents. I wonder why people don't see it as dangerous in any way to suppress minority viewpoints. They focus on the dangers of allowing those views to be heard. Leucosticte (talk) 23:19, 15 December 2014 (UTC)

Do you think that continuing to have a page about them on BoyWiki is desirable given the circumstances? --Etenne (talk) 13:30, 16 December 2014 (UTC)

As criticism, maybe. Kinda like how Evil-Unveiled had pages about BoyWiki and its users, for purposes of criticism. Leucosticte (talk) 21:01, 16 December 2014 (UTC)

Book

Someone writes, "I just finished a book about a young teen growing up in South Africa. He goes to a boarding school where he gets in a relationship with one of the teachers. A key is found that the teacher gave the boy. At first the boy lies to protect the teacher but when the story falls apart the boy ends up telling the truth -- not everything, but enough. The boy continues to defend the teacher, even saying it was his fault the relationship got started. The interrogator then switches and even gets angry that the boy does not see himself as the victim. In the end the boy gives in and repeats that he was abused. It struck me that once the boy relented and became the 'victim' he gave his empowerment away not to the teacher but the interrogator. The teacher actually empowered the boy by letting him choose how the relationship progressed but the interrogator took that empowerment away and used the empowerment for himself to take control of the boy and the teacher."

It kinda reminds me of the new ad campaign that's been on TV asking for donations to teach young people that they should tell on any adult who engages in sexual touching with them. This training is said to produce strong, empowered youth. Leucosticte (talk) 00:30, 1 January 2015 (UTC)

Leucosticte's e-mail

If you have it, I'd like to get in touch with him. Please don't put it here - I don't think it should be made public without his permission - you could e-mail it to me, if you have it, OK? Thanks. user4