Talk:Boylover

Greencrystal, I removed your puzzling definition of pedophile. Aside from the fact that it was misleading, it and any discussion of pedophilia would belong in their own articles. In addition, I didn't the defensive examples of what boylovers "aren't" really belonged here. Aside from being mildly offensive, the tone didn't match. I did like some of the other changes. --Hínandil 01:29, 16 Apr 2005 (EDT)

Hi Hinandil-

I should take more time when doing this, I was a bit rushed when i wrote it-thanks for making the edits :) Greencrystal 03:27, 16 Apr 2005 (EDT)

Boylovers in history

This needs a proper writeup but I don't have time to do it (which is why I didn't before). You're going to have to be a bit more specific there. Was da Vinci a boylover? That might be a hard case to make. Is it really important in a definition of boylovers? I think this section might be better suited to giving examples of cultures that accepted or rejected the idea of boylove. We'll have to think about overlap with the boylove article. --Hínandil 01:29, 16 Apr 2005 (EDT)

I read somewhere that he was-he made lots of drawings of boys on beaches etc-I'll have to do some research it seems-where is Kyosa when you need him?? *grr* I could ask other boylovers for further clarification-I was thinking that we could leave it as is, and when it goes online there will be plenty of room for the members to make all the edits they wish-unless you want to make this a permanent article, in which case I'll do a proper research.

It is important in my opinion in that it shows that boylovers are contributing members of society, not just dirty old men-boywiki is going to be a public resource, is it not? Of course, there are major possible links here-we could make a page "famous Boylovers" and "famous suspected boylovers" or some such-it would be an interesting discussion page in any case. Greencrystal 03:27, 16 Apr 2005 (EDT)

I think it is important to set the precedent here, in encyclopedic articles, that when you add something and state it as fact, it should be rather certain. I don't think that an article defining boylovers needs to be so defensive. The way I wrote it acknowledges that there are some lousy guys out there--we're not saints. Boylove is only one part of who we are.  :)

As far as linking to famous boylovers, I think the moment we have an article or two about individuals, we can link to the category page at the bottom. That would be better than going into details on each one in this article. I'm going to look into using existing sources to help write a history section. --Hínandil 16:49, 16 Apr 2005 (EDT)

Non-English terms for boylover

If bacha baz really is the Urdu term for boylover (and it'd sure better not be "boy" and "lover" one after the other! :p) then I want it written in Arabic script in Unicode. You can put the roman transliteration afterward in parentheses. --Hínandil 01:29, 16 Apr 2005 (EDT)

I believe it is, as it means "attracted to boys"-people use it to mean someone who is "boyish" or has boyish tendencies or is attracted to boys, depending on what context it is used in. I'm sure there are other words in Urdu for Boylover, but I'm not sure what they are-I'm not sure how to do the Arabic script-it is very different from roman letters in that the individual Arabic "alphabet" is different from a word written in arabic-

to explain a bit better-

If I wanted to say "me" in urdu, the "m" and the "e" would become "joined"-the individual letters of the alphabet would change their shape.

Other than that, i dont know how to do Unicode-I'll practise on MS Word, once I get it right I'll make the edit. Greencrystal 03:52, 16 Apr 2005 (EDT)

Hm, if you don't know but just believe it is, maybe it should stay out from now. There are a lot of things to call people who are attracted to boys but not all of them mean "boylover." Do stick the term here in Arabic script if you can figure it out, though--then it'll be handy if we do figure out whether that's the right word.  :) BTW, the German words are only capitalized because lowercase would be misspelled. --Hínandil 16:49, 16 Apr 2005 (EDT)

Minor-attracted adults

"minor attracted adult (abbreviated MAA) - An expression designed to sanitize the concept into the realm of psychological and clinical writings."

It's not clear to me whether the word "designed" refers to the origin of the term or to the current usage of it, but if it's the former, the Open Hands Wiki has a fairly accurate account of the origin of the term.

http://wiki.openhands.ws/wiki/Main/Minor-AttractedAdults

Only the date of origin is wrong there. The term dates back to at least 1999, because it was used in the Christian Consultation on Boylove that year.

http://www.philia.ws/consultation/statement1999.htm

Most likely I invented the term around June 1999, because that was the month when I started the Philia newsmagazine and was in need of a general term to describe folks who were attracted to minors. My motives for coining the term were therefore classificatory rather than connotative, and were journalistic rather than psychological or clinical.

While I invented the term, my impression is that Bach was the one to popularize it, primarily through his use of it at Open Hands, from whence it spread to the girl-love community.

The Open Hands Wiki entry links to an article I wrote on the topic of terminology. As the article hints, I used the term boylovers in my news articles whenever I referred to boylovers. "Minor-attracted adults" was intended as a broader term to cover all types of adults who were attracted to minors.

Of course, once you've invented a term, other people will determine how it's used. I'm not sure what the current usage is of the term, though I'm pleased to see that some people still find it helpful.

The discussion in this entry of the possible defects of the term seems to me to be accurate. I was conscious of both problems at the time I coined the term, and indeed, these were the first criticisms made at the time I invented it. One criticism not mentioned was that the term received a harsh response from some opponents to boylove, who, like the author of this entry, considered it to be a euphemism designed to make boylove more acceptable.

--Heather 18:04, 17 January 2006 (EST)