Talk:Etenne

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To all users

It would be a good idea to review this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Neutral_point_of_view

In short, the neutrality of point of view leads to an objective, "scientific" discourse, whereas non-neutrality leads to one-sided views and propaganda.

An important point is perhaps to understand that specific sympathies are not incompatible with a neutral point of view: you can like a country, a person, an amorous preference, and nevertheless be able of an objective discourse about it.

Only objectivity is credible. That's why it is vital for BoyWiki. We don't "promote", we explain and illustrate. --Etenne (talk) 12:25, 4 March 2015 (UTC)


Please ask yourself before hitting the post button

  1. Dose this have a cultural or historical relavance to boylove?
  2. By posting this are you going to make Etenne lose sleep?



To all BoyWiki users:Naming

The convention for naming pages is that articles should be singular whereas categories should be plural.

  • Names of topics and topic categories should be singular, normally corresponding to the name of a BoyWiki. article. Examples: "Law" (which represents a body of knowledge), "France", "George W. Bush".
  • Names of set categories should be plural. Examples: "Writers", "Villages in Poland".

However, I am willing to hear counter arguments to this practice or suggestions before deciding what the policy should be --Etenne (talk) 13:17, 25 March 2015 (UTC)

Just yesterday I noticed that Wikipedia has categories with a singular title, e.g. wikipedia:Category:Vagina. Also, there are some plural article titles, e.g.wikipedia:Jews. Lysander (talk) 15:13, 25 March 2015 (UTC)
You can't figure out what those two (obvious, at least, to me) errors are due to? Uh... You certainly make up in glibness what you lack in perspicacity. User4 (talk) 02:37, 26 March 2015 (UTC)
Enlighten me. Lysander (talk) 03:16, 26 March 2015 (UTC)
Hey! You didn't enlighten me about what those two errors are due to. Lysander (talk) 04:10, 28 March 2015 (UTC)


Do you have an text editor that handles carriage returns (CR) and line feed (LF) in search/replace functions?

If for some reason you don't want to download the NoteTab light program linked to above, before I put in all the time to search for an alternative, I need to know if you have some such editor, which would help immensely in your editing of files for BoyChat. I also have noticed that you have not responded to earlier posts of mine here on your talk page, and I can't help but wonder if there is any specific reason for that.

It's not that... just like you, I have been very busy in the last few days and I don't see it getting any better for at least a week. Plus with my recent health problems, it's not been a fun time for me. One of the BoyWiki admins just pointed out to me that on fr.boywiki there are a few entries on Japan that could be translated and added... which he feels are better qulity then what we have now... how's your french? :)
I have a way with languages... part of my "magic" you might say... Links, please? (I hope the articles are not very long... I'd really like to finish some other stuff I'm in the middle of)...
The Japan article is in your hands now, at least for the magic that you can do that I don't know how to. I won't touch it until you finish fixing what you can, OK?
Happy now? Do I get a cookie for being a good boy?
Yes, it looks like I am going to be in Japan for a few days to correct the code and then I need to go back and read the original French and correct some of the translation errors. And to be quite frank, my French is getting a bit rusty as I don't use it as much as I should. --Etenne (talk) 10:43, 11 April 2015 (UTC)
You may want to open each of the following URLs in a separate browser tab, along with the English BoyWiki Japan page in another for editing. If you want, I can fix the translation errors -- I may be faster at fixing them than you (or you may be faster at that than I am -- I don't really know).

Questioning the wisdom of encouraging users to reveal their e-mail addresses to BoyWiki (and potentially, to LEO)

Were this implemented, users could inadvertently expose themselves to being "outed".

https://www.boywiki.org/en/User:Lysander/EmailAllChanges

Template:Unsigned

If you're going to question that, then what about Special:RequestAccount, which also has an optional e-mail address field? Lysander (talk) 02:57, 13 April 2015 (UTC)

Hack to avoid Wikipedia harvesting of IP addresses of BoyWiki readers who follow external links

Unintended consequences: disabling the {{w|}} template just corrupted the text of I-don't-know-how-many pages.

Here's an example:

  • Here is a test sentence containing an imbedded link to the wikipedia article on {{w|test}} to demonstrate the new problem of text corruption.
  • Here is a test sentence containing an imbedded link to the wikipedia article on test to demonstrate the new problem of text corruption.

I just did a quick check and there may be over 130 instances of the text corruption problem in various articles (not 130 articles, but 130 instances).

Linking can be made safe. See how I did the "External links" on the following page:


Sociogenesis or Sociogenesis

BoyWiki Russian roulette, one of these is an internal link and one is an external link (can you tell the difference?) make a choice. --Etenne (talk) 02:38, 13 April 2015 (UTC)

I see the difference. What do you suggest doing about it? User4 (talk) 02:59, 13 April 2015 (UTC)

130 instances exactly... if there were only a few it would be less of a problem but this is out of hand... --Etenne (talk) 02:50, 13 April 2015 (UTC)

Yes, it's a serious problem, if Wikipedia is harvesting the IP addresses of those following embedded links. If you take BW offline, edit the exported .XML file of the entire site, then import it, you could fix the problem in an hour or two instead of taking days.
Etenne, when it comes to security for Internet users, either something is a serious problem that must be addressed or it is not a problem. There is nothing in-between.
Either we take all possible steps to stop Wikipedia (and other sites) from detecting that the visitor to their site has clicked a link in a BoyWiki article, and prevent them from IP address harvesting, or else we don't worry about it at all. There is no "middle ground" on this.
So, which is it?

Would referer hiding solve this problem? I could write an extension, if necessary, to implement this on all external links. By the way, one of the downsides of using external links instead of interwiki links is that it trips the CAPTCHA each time. Lysander (talk) 05:24, 13 April 2015 (UTC)

I believe the modifications that Lysander has made to Template:W are sufficient to solve the problem. People can now see that it is an external link and can make a choice as to whether they want to click on it or not. Again, I want to stress that the use of this template within a paragraph text is not the best editing practice and I would give preference to making internal links or if necessary use [1] or make the link a reference. --Etenne (talk) 10:20, 13 April 2015 (UTC)
I notice too, from this page, that it's the browser that sends the HTTP referer header. So the user can set up their browser to not send these headers even if we don't use rel=noreferrer. It's also possible to use this hack. By the way, interwiki links on most wikis are a slightly different color than regular wikilinks, so I wonder if BoyWiki has a non-standard setup with regard to that? There might be a way to fix that issue, e.g. by changing the CSS. Lysander (talk) 20:04, 13 April 2015 (UTC)

A few interesting graphic files you may want to use on BW are at commons.wikimedia.org

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Pederasty

Pederasty in Ancient Greece - World Heritage Encyclopedia™ licensed under CC BY-SA

  • Pederasty in Ancient Greece
Sourced from World Heritage Encyclopedia™ licensed under CC BY-SA 3.0
Help to improve this article, make contributions at the Citational Source
3365380
  • Seems high quality
  • Seems unbiased
  • Seems "open source" (creative commons) and therefore quotable.
http://self.gutenberg.org/articles/Pederasty_in_ancient_Greece

I got a little farther and I saw this :(

On the one hand, the practice of pederasty is ancient and is still acceptable in some cultures. On the other hand, we cannot turn a blind eye to the fact that pederastic relationships are, more often than not, extremely traumatic to children. It is obvious that pederasts and pedophiles take advantage of and exploit young children, and we feel obligated to put an end to what we consider to be a heinous practice. Nevertheless, the practice of pederasty continues to flourish (and grow) in a lot of places, and there doesn't seem to be an end in sight.

So is is not as "unbiased" as I thought. Still, it has some good information.

Please caution BoyWiki "users" to be more careful when creating and removing redirects

A number of links have been broken by users (editors) who carelessly create (and remove) redirects. Broken links damage the credibility of BoyWiki in the minds of visitors, something that is to be avoided at all cost, in my opinion. Yes, damage done by incompetent or thoughtless users can be undone, but only after the damage has been noted, which may not occur quickly, if ever.

We should try to appear professional in our articles whenever possible (essays aside).

I don't know why you go to such great lengths to deliberately alienate volunteers who give their time freely to BoyWiki.

It is really counterproductive, not to mention damaging to BoyWiki. I don't know why you do it, unless you, in some way, wish to deliberately sabotage BoyWiki.


I understand the problem now. Really, I do. I know what happened.

You could have said, "I made a mistake, and I know it seems strange, but that was the easiest way to fix it." Done. No angry feelings. Makes you sound more human, too.

Or, "There was a strange software glitch, and this was the easiest way to fix the problem." Also, done. Unusual, but no further questions.

But, no. You brought out "the big guns" - "WE HAVE THE RIGHT TO DELETE ANYTHING WE WANT, WITHOUT GIVING ANY REASONS TO ANYBODY, SO SCREW YOU!" That is very abrupt, not to mention a very rude thing to say, and pisses people off. You could have held off on answering my question, and then had time to come up with one of the above responses.

I don't know if you'll understand the following: On BC, it is sometimes better NOT to cog something, because then you draw more attention to it.

You really can't afford to piss users off - there are so few, and you really need them. I suggest you keep that in mind next time you have any kind of problem that you have to deal with.

I have told you what I can either you accept that or you don't. Somethings don't need to be made public.
You don't have to be so hard on people all the time. If you do, they won't cooperate with you. And if they don't cooperate with you, you are left with an impossible task - that of fixing everything that needs fixing at BoyWiki all by yourself.
So, which do you think is better (and easier) for both you and for BoyWiki? To "lighten up" (which seems somewhat difficult for you to do) or to try to accomplish an impossible task, one that you can never ever finish all by yourself?
I personally would prefer to have maximal transparency, except where it's necessary keep information private to shield BoyWiki and its members from attacks by the state. Lysander (talk) 19:11, 17 April 2015 (UTC)

Categorization

The answer to the question, "What is wrong with 'Scientific literature' as a category?" is not "Academic literature". The correct answer is, "Literature, scientific" or "Literature, academic". The main idea is Literature, and the subidea is scientific or academic.

You should (almost always) go from the larger, broader classification, then refine it into subcategories. This is the logical and professional way to do it. This is how dictionaries and encyclopedias are organized, but, of course, they also include "See ..." or "See also ..." entries.

You just created a new category, "Online history". This is problematic. The larger classification is "History" and the refinement is "online". So the category would better be "History, online" or "History, of online sites". A category "Online history" de-emphasizes the fact that we are dealing with "History," and puts the focus on "Online" as the important main classification. Ideally, there should be a "See History, online" reference/redirect under an entry "Online history" just in case someone does for some reason have it in their head that "Online" is the broader classification.

If you create a category, "Short boys literature," then you are assuming that anyone trying to get information about boys -- which includes their height -- will think of "Short" as being the broader classification, while in fact, they are more likely to think first of "Boys," and then the subcategory, "height". So, the category should not be "Short boys literature," but "Literature, about short boys," or "Literature, short boys" or "Literature, addressing boy's height". Then have a reference/redirect from "Short boys" to "Literature, short boys" or whatever.

If you create a category such as: "Boys, of short stature (literature)" then new categories naturally follow, such as "Boys, tall (literature)," "Boys, fat (literature)," "Boys, thin (literature), "Boys, ugly (literature)" etc. This is the professional way, and nonprofessionals will very soon catch on to how this method of classification works, making it easier for them to find articles that interest them.

If you respond, no matter how briefly, to the explanation I have taken almost an hour to write here, you will encourage feedback from me (and others). If you ignore the explanation I have include here, then I am very unlikely to invest any time or energy in the future in providing feedback on improving the site. Of course, the choice is yours to do as you wish, and respond or not respond. I cannot force a response from you.

Making more use of the Agora

BoyWiki:Agora hardly gets any use. Basically people use your talk page as the de facto village pump, including when they have problems with other users or proposals for how the site could be better run. The implication is that you'll be expected to adjudicate all disputes and decide all matters of site policy that the Wiki Council doesn't care about or want to deal with. Would it be better to shift more discussion over to the Agora? Maybe that would help cultivate a culture in which people think of these discussions as matters to be decided by site consensus rather than by any wiki-dictator. I think, though, that in order for that to happen, people need to feel assured that you'll at least read the Agora (even if you don't respond to everything). Lysander (talk) 19:52, 17 April 2015 (UTC)

Well I do at least try to review everything. Even though I don't try to be the niceness police, sometimes I have to be the boss. I do listen to and take seriously everyone's comments and suggestions. However, we are also in a number of ways limited in what we can do for a number of reasons including that we have many enemies and we are under constant scrutiny and attack. But yes, using the Agora more is a good idea. --Etenne (talk) 09:58, 18 April 2015 (UTC)

BoyChat message for you re: ancient Greek

http://boychat.org/messages/1435590.htmUser4 (talk) 12:15, 20 April 2015 (UTC)

What do they call "essays" in newspapers?

Think about it. User4 (talk) 18:19, 21 April 2015 (UTC)

Changing the article categories the way you are is only going to make more work later

It's obvious that you haven't thought through what a category system is, and how one is set up. Actually, you are only making things worse with what you are doing right now. "Boys" and "Authors" are People as well as simply Boys and Authors. {SIGH}. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Festina_lente User4 (talk) 20:32, 21 April 2015 (UTC)

I would be happy to stop if you want to do it. Plus, I have no idea what you are saying as Boy and Authors are categorized under people--Etenne (talk) 20:51, 21 April 2015 (UTC)

If I wanted to find out the names of old BoyLove websites here's what I would do

I'd go to Boylinks first. They've got many many (now defunct) listings.

But better than that, I'd ask an experienced, intelligent person how he would find those old sites. He would probably then do a 20-minute search and come up with a site like this one, http://web.archive.org/web/19970620073530/http://mavrickbbs.com/cranch/swer2.htm , which has a huge list of old BoyLove sites. Some of the links on that page even lead to archived copies of those BoyLove sites themselves!

But, of course, it would take a person of intelligence himself to recognize, and then to ask, another intelligent person to do such a search. And that may be asking a bit too much, considering the situation here at BoyWiki, and the people involved.

But in the unlikely event that such a series of unlikely events did actually happen, I would be sure to effusively thank the person for having done such a search. But that, too, that may be asking a bit too much, considering the situation here at BoyWiki, and the people involved...

Comments, anyone? User4 (talk) 00:22, 23 April 2015 (UTC)

Wonder of wonder! One of the "unlikely events" really did occur! A search was done giving exactly what Etenne needed! Hmm... but Etenne didn't even have the common courtesy to be sure to "effusively thank" the one who did the search for him. Gee - I've got several tabs open with other sites, and other names that Etenne doesn't even have yet! Hmm... should I go back and get more site names for Etenne? Well, he didn't even have the decency to say "thank you" when I did it before. Aw, fuck it. I'll continue working on the books I'm preparing. At least people have the courtesy to thank me for doing those things.
User4 (talk) 10:54, 24 April 2015 (UTC)
Thank you very much. I tell you this in all sincerity, in general I am very fond of you and appreciate the efforts you make for the BL community. But there are days, when like a 2-year-old that you do ware on my nerves. --Etenne (talk) 11:04, 24 April 2015 (UTC)

Ever notice how many sites that are mentioned on BC or YouTube or on other BL sites disappear after being mentioned?

It might to a good idea to be very prudent when it comes to sites that are mentioned which still exist on archive sites, so they won't disappear. Archive.org censors BL sites, or at least, has done so in the past and may do so in the future. I hope you get what I mean. User4 (talk) 03:13, 23 April 2015 (UTC)

When you find a old historical BL site do a screen cap:) We must preserver our history. --Etenne (talk) 03:31, 23 April 2015 (UTC)

There's something much better than a screen cap. Print the page using CutePDFwriter installed as a print driver. It's free, and easy to use. Google for the name and download/install the program. User4 (talk) 04:19, 23 April 2015 (UTC)

Hmm... How long does it take to find/download/instal the CutePDFwriter printer driver? About two minutes in all? I wonder how long Etenne spends doing "print screen" captures of web sites? I've done it, and it is very slow and gives very poor results. But Etenne did not even acknowledge my suggestion about using CutePDFwriter! I guess he just prefers to waste his time doing screen captures. So I won't bother to give him any more good suggestions. He just ignores them, anyway. Gee, BoyWiki is a very strange place! I wonder if that's one of the reasons why it's so hard to find new editors for BoyWiki?
User4 (talk) 11:02, 24 April 2015 (UTC)

Good quotes from Jim Finn former webmaster at BC

Pre-1998 quotes from him in the middle of the article. Most of it is about religious Christian boylover crap. http://www.helping-people.info/articles/oxymoron.htm

One of the users is creating innumerable "empty categories" - empty, but for ANOTHER "empty category"

which leads to a final category which then contains only A SINGLE ARTICLE. And it is clear that the other parent categories are very likely to NEVER EVER CONTAIN A SINGLE ARTICLE.

This is insane. User4 (talk) 08:25, 25 April 2015 (UTC)

You need to keep in mind that most things on BoyWiki are not written in stone. The category system we have now is just a base to build upon but in 10 years will likely be very different then what we have now, as categories are added, deleted, moved around. Rome was not built in a day, nor by one person, and was torn down and rebuilt many times, and is still changing even to this very day. --Etenne (talk) 11:54, 25 April 2015 (UTC)

I think there is a misunderstanding about the nature and purpose of categories

There is a category "Films," which is well-populated with entries, as I believe it should be. There are also subcategories, such as "Documentary" etc. which also is as it should be.

If someone is interested in Films then they go to the Film category. They see a large list of articles on films. Then they see that they have the option of having the films further categorized for them, according to different interests. They say, "Yeah - I'm not interested in just any film - I want to see the ones that are documentaries!. So he clicks on the "Documentaries" category, and he's happy. Of course, the same documentary film should be in the "Film" category as well, but there the title gives no indication of exactly what kind of film it is. That is what the "Documentary" category is for - to single out certain kinds of films -- to eliminate, for the interested person, the nondocumentary films from the original larger list of films.

Another person may have an interest in the directors so he clicks on the "Directors" category.

[10 minutes later, after typing the above] To give another example, I just went back to find the category "Films" and I couldn't find it! I spent 5 minutes clicking through a dozen different links (as they are currently [mis]organized, and I couldn't return to the "Film" category to finish giving the other example!

Which is just another example of how articles are [mis]categorized on BoyWiki!!!

Let me try to explain again. For Example, we have a category People. All articles about people should belong in that category.

Bill is a person.
He is also a young boy.
He has red hair.
He is an actor.
So he belongs in the category "People," because he is a person.
He ALSO belongs to the category "Boy," because he is a person who is a boy.
He is ALSO a boy actor, so he belongs in the category "Actors" and also to the category "Boy actors".
AND he belongs to the category "Boys with red hair" because he is a boy with red hair.
The last category is for those who have a special interest at BoyWiki in boys with red hair.
  • So the Bill article belongs to the following categories:
[Category:People
[Category:Boys
[Category:Actors
[Category:Boy actors
[Category:Boys with red hair

Bill does NOT just belong in any one single category above. He belongs in ALL of the categories.

Bob is a person.
He is also a young boy.
He is the U.N. representative for boys from his country.
He has brown hair.
So he belongs in the category "People," because he is a person.
He ALSO belongs to the category "Boy," because he is a person who is a boy.
He belongs to the category "United Nations because he is a U.N. representative.
AND he belongs to the category "Boys with brown hair" because he is a boy with brown hair.
The last category is for those who have a special interest in boys with brown hair.

So the Bob article belongs to the following categories:

[Category:People
[Category:Boys
[Category:Boys with brown hair
[Category:United Nations

Bob does NOT belong in just one of the above categories. He belongs in ALL of the categories above.

So somebody comes to BoyWiki, sees the main categories, says, "Yeah! People! That's what I want to see! Not animals or rocks or laws or books - People!"

He clicks on the category People, and then sees 130 or so names in a list. He says, "Hmm... I'm REALLY interested in people who are BOYS!" He sees that someone has (conveniently for him) already identified which of those names in the People category are boys. He clicks that category. Then he sees another long list of names. But he sees that there is a category "Boys with red hair". He happens to have the hots for red-haired boys! So he clicks that category, and finds the article about Bill, reads it, looks at the photo of Bill, wanks, and goes to sleep happy.

Does the above make sense to you?

I hope so, because I am tired of explaining any more about this topic. I have to go figure out how to recover the 85-page book of Boy Poetry that my OCR program can't open any more because the program has "bugs" in it. It took me 4 days to prepare that book! It was almost finished. Until I found that the OCR program has that "bug" in it. I may have to do the whole thing again! :-(

Yes and no ( see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:People and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Films)

I can understand and accept that we are not yet a large enough wiki to have a category for every topic and somethings need to stay in the more general topic category (where on other larger wikis they would not) all I can say is that we need to build a little more each day (both in terms of content and category) and we will get there.

I am sorry that I disappoint you User4 but like everyone else, I have to balance my limited time between my real life and what I am able to do on the internet. I am not Supper Boylover, nor am I a prolific writer like you. I am not ignoring you or unappreciative, I simply have not had the time to fully explore your excellent suggestions. Also this is my busy time of year, and having been ill since December has put me way behind in what I need to do. I am making progress but don't expect me to be more the 1/4 here until at least the end of next month.

--Etenne (talk) 18:02, 29 April 2015 (UTC)

Where is the template "This article has been criticized, or a response has been created to it."

...which goes at the top of an article, with a link to the response(s) User4 (talk) 16:16, 3 May 2015 (UTC)

You have to give me more to go on then that, can you link me to an example? --Etenne (talk) 17:02, 3 May 2015 (UTC)
https://www.boywiki.org/en/Psychopathia_Sexualis User4 (talk) 17:09, 3 May 2015 (UTC)
I meant an example of a template like this... that I can recreate. You can also do this page by page using

{{Ambox}} --Etenne (talk) 17:31, 3 May 2015 (UTC).

To all editors

I have already included articles about, and links to, a number of important reference works, including The Encyclopedia of Homosexuality, Growing Up Sexually, The International Encyclopedia of Sexuality, etc.

I had hoped that editors here would have realized -- without having to be directly told -- that these resources would be useful as resources for accurate, factual, and reliable information -- information that could be included in BoyWiki articles.

Apparently I was mistaken about the capacity for editors here to think independently. It appears that editors may need to be held by the hand, and led down the path.

As this is the case, I would like to suggest the following: Please consult the above-mentioned reference works before writing articles on topics that you totally lack information on. Also, return to older articles which you have written, and update them with information from those reference works. Thank you. User4 (talk) 05:26, 7 May 2015 (UTC)

Suggestion for soliciting information anonymously from BC posters for inclusion in BoyWiki articles

BC posters are familiar with posting anonymously to the BC board.

For example, if you would like posters to tell of their personal experiences in the Philippines or Thailand, few if any posters will post that on BC under their nicks, as they would be concerned about the "antis" who may be gathering personal information about them.

Few, also, will e-mail you from their e-mail accounts due to similar paranoia.

A board exists which can be posted to anonymously. But posters should use a VPN or Tor FireFox to ensure that their real IP address is not being recorded at that board.

The board is:


You could start a topic there, such as "My Philippine Experiences," and anyone could post a response to that, with their own personal experiences, and completely anonymously. In fact, you could post several topics there. Then put a notice on BC that posters can respond to your post.

The board is cleared once a day, at midnight -- but I don't know what time zone their server is.

The board fills up with junk every day as the "bots" can post to it freely, so it would be necessary for responders to scroll down to find your topic, i.e. "My Philippine Experiences," in order to post a response.

If you try this, you would have to determine the exact time the board is cleared each day, and be absolutely sure to check for responses at least once a day, preferably just before the board is cleared.

It just might work for getting sensitive input from posters because it is so simple and easy for them to respond this way. It might take some time for the idea to become acceptable, not least of which because not all people at BC regularly read all posts. So you would have to post your request for submissions repeatedly on BC to reach more posters.

It might work. There is nothing to lose by trying this, except for the time it takes you to check the board yourself. User4 (talk) 06:23, 7 May 2015 (UTC)

I don't know. What does that mean? "My Philippine Experiences"? I hope you are not suggesting that people post about illegal acts? (or things that I would personally find offensive:)--Etenne (talk) 23:42, 7 May 2015 (UTC)
Perhaps someone should interview Nycalvin. Lysander (talk) 03:47, 8 May 2015 (UTC)

Certain editors at BoyWiki are "loose cannons on deck" when it comes to responsible article creation

I think it is highly irresponsible for a BoyWiki editor to create an article for BoyWiki when that editor has done virtually no research on the subject, and it is not a subject with which he has first-hand knowledge of or experience with.

I think there should be certain guidelines that must be strictly adhered to by BoyWiki editors, one of which is to do at a minimum some basic research before creating an article!

I am referring to the new (so-called) "article" Boy_Lovers_and_Zucchini_Eaters

A simple Google search reveals that a large amount of information is available on the topic of BLAZE. How could it be that a BoyWiki editor could even conceive of writing an article for BoyWiki without doing simple research on the topic first?

https://www.google.com/search?q=blaze+paedophile+group+australia&btnG=Search&hl=en&gbv=1

The mind boggles at the poor quality of the work done by certain current BoyWiki editors!

Why is this egregious editing behavior allowed at all by the Admin of BoyWiki?

User4 (talk) 07:57, 8 May 2015 (UTC)

Certain BoyWiki editors have demonstrated such carelessness in article creation that their continued participation at BoyWiki should seriously be questioned.

Can no one else at BoyWiki see an example of such extraordinary carelessness in the following newly created article, Ernest Borneman on Ernest Bornemann?

I believe that BoyWiki should have a "probationary policy" for editors whose work does not meet a minimum standard of quality at BoyWiki. Should certain editors be unable to satisfy those minimum quality standards they should be prohibited from creating or editing articles at BoyWiki.

User4 (talk) 08:07, 8 May 2015 (UTC)

What is necessary to get him to do something about a problem he has created? To shove his nose in it, as some do with a puppy? Can he not read English? Is he blind? User4 (talk) 03:07, 10 May 2015 (UTC)

Could you alert the other editors, especially the one who writes nonsense articles on various countries that he can click on provided links

to get information to base articles on.

Growing_Up_Sexually:_A_World_Atlas_ethnographic_content

Growing_Up_Sexually:_A_World_Atlas_country_content

International_Encyclopedia_of_Sexuality_full_contents

Encylopedia_of_Homosexuality_relevant_countries

Pacific_cultures

And he can go back and make his articles (which, so far, have been full of pure drivel) more relevant to BoyWiki? Thank you.

NOTE: I now see that I misspelled "Encyclopedia" in one above article. Could you pleas fix that? Thanks.

User4 (talk) 12:34, 8 May 2015 (UTC)

I am sorry, but my patience is running thin today. Can we all just be responsible adults for a change? Is that too much to ask for?--Etenne (talk) 12:44, 8 May 2015 (UTC)

The 2006 version of BoyWiki appears to have articles that we don't currently have.

I am not putting a link in case there are some kind of "security concerns". Do you know of any reason not to include all or most articles from the 2006 BoyWiki? User4 (talk) 07:05, 9 May 2015 (UTC)

Well I was not around in 2006 but I remember reading that the database for BoyWiki became corrupt and there wasn't a back up so they ended up starting over. That would be my guess.--Etenne (talk) 11:17, 9 May 2015 (UTC)
Archive.org has at least one backup, done in 2006. I suggest that someone with time go back and check which articles -- existing in the archive.org backup -- are now missing due to the corrupted database problem. Don't look at me to do that -- I am doing, and have aleady done, enough for BoyWiki and for the other projects that I am currently working on and involved in! User4 (talk) 01:47, 10 May 2015 (UTC)

Excessive category creation

I believe that the minimum number of categories which create useful and meaningful classifications are all that are necessary on BoyWiki for our articles.

Excess and unnecessary category creation will only cause more problems in the future for article editing, creation, and classification, not to mention that the recent attempts at sub-category creation which we have seen done by Lysander (a girllover, and only a guest at BoyWiki) can continue infinitely, unnecessarily, and ad nauseam. User4 (talk) 01:42, 10 May 2015 (UTC)

BL and GL history

You were saying earlier that "GL's stood right beside their teleiophile heterosexual brothers with their torches and pitchforks in hand". I thought the way the history went was, originally there was no age of consent, and when the first age of consent was imposed, it only applied to girls, since girls' virginity made them more valuable as brides. Then feminists and others got the age of consent laws changed to be gender neutral, since they believed in gender neutrality as a general principle, and also viewed men as predatory and exploitative in general (whether homosexually or heterosexually).

So it seems to me that the problem here was that people didn't stop society from going down the slippery slope that led to our current situation. It's the phenomenon Martin Niemöller wrote about in his poem. They came for the girllovers first, and then they came for the boylovers. The solution, then, is for everyone to unite to stop oppression before it can get the narrow end of the wedge in the door, because once it does that, it'll be harder to stop it from expanding to cover larger groups.

Whichever group the government attacks, whether it's BLs or GLs, the other group needs to join in defending them, because next the government will attack the other group as well. Illiberal groups seek to establish a beachhead wherever it can and then conquer the rest from there. They rely on the fact that they can often begin by attacking a small group that no one else cares about because they're not in that group.

The wedge can work the other way too; in seeking to turn back the tide, we might sometimes find a weak spot in the government's fortress, in the form of a policy that doesn't directly affect our interests, but which can be attacked to get the process going in the direction we want it to go. For example, boylovers aren't directly affected by a case involving an 18-year-old boy possessing lascivious photos taken by his 17-year-old girlfriend, but bringing attention to such cases, which the public might more readily sympathize with, and changing the laws governing that sort of situation, might be a first step to gaining more liberty for all. Lysander (talk) 15:41, 11 May 2015 (UTC)

Blocking

When you blocked User4 you blocked me as well. We share or shared an IP, which I didn't know. Wanker (talk) 22:24, 11 May 2015 (UTC)

I got blocked as well, and I'm pretty sure we don't share an IP. There's some glitch in the way it's set up. Anyway, it shouldn't be necessary to block the user's underlying IP since this is a site that allows account creation by invitation only. Lysander (talk) 22:29, 11 May 2015 (UTC)

Actually, we all share an IP. As an added security precaution, BoyWiki doesn't record IP's like other wikis..... but yes, I forgot to not ban by IP and only by user name. I don't like to ban people and I hope that I don't need to do that too often--Etenne (talk) 22:56, 11 May 2015 (UTC)

I am quite angry now. So I will limit myself to a simple comment.

Anyone who considers a frank discussion using words of anglo-saxon origin to discuss the myths and realities of anal sex to be "inappropriate" or "off limits" on a wiki devoted to pederastic and pedophilic relationships between males -- relationships which often include sex -- is out of their mother-fucking mind! User4 (talk) 15:10, 14 May 2015 (UTC)

Is a compromise possible? Maybe move the essay to Wanker's userspace? We could even put quotations around it, and call it User:Wanker/"Men fucking little boys". If you're worried about pages bringing BoyWiki into disrepute, this one would probably have more potential to do so, but in reality most people who know about BoyWiki already hate it and its agenda, regardless of how it's presented. So we may as well not alienate our own users by censoring their essays and discussions, as long as they're done in the proper places. Lysander (talk) 15:14, 14 May 2015 (UTC)
Yes, I am starting to get quite angry myself. If all people want to post about is sex, then please do that on another site. The erotic aspect of Boylove is just one very small piece of a very large picture. So if you don't want to post about love, poetry, beauty, etc... and simply want to talk about sex then you should should likely be posting to alt.pornsite.of-your-choice and not here! This isn't the Usenet or Sexnet or the Darknet where you can focus on "fucking little boys" and the having hedonistic and all the abusing sex you desire. --Etenne (talk) 16:36, 14 May 2015 (UTC)
There's no rule that says anything about users' being required to post about love, poetry, or beauty rather than just sex. Besides, the enjoyment of love, poetry, and beauty is a form of hedonism too, since all these things bring pleasure. I also don't think the essay advocated any kind of abuse. Lysander (talk) 17:04, 14 May 2015 (UTC)
I shouldn't have to make a rule about that, that should be a given to any BL. BoyWiki is primarily about those things which enhance our lives as boyloves and give us pride in who we are as individuals and collectively... BoyWiki should showcase our accomplishments in arts, literature, science etc... as well as ways to enhance the lives of the boys we love as they move towards becoming the accomplished adults they hopefully will be. BoyWiki is not a porn site, it is not a sex site, and it certainly is not about "fucking little boys"!!!!! --Etenne (talk) 18:24, 14 May 2015 (UTC)
The whole point of the essay was to say that boylove is not about men fucking little boys. Maybe Wanker should have titled it boylove is not about men fucking little boys just to be clearer. By the way, we're kinda in the unfortunate situation now that anyone who publicly admits to being a boylover will tend to have his career in arts, literature, and science curtailed. Lysander (talk) 18:45, 14 May 2015 (UTC)
There is a misconception circulating: that I wrote Men Fucking Boys. That is definitely not true. All I did was add one word to the title. I do think it should be available (accessible) somewhere, Wanker (talk) 12:15, 15 May 2015 (UTC)
Yes, I understand that. OK, I can admit that I may have flew off the handle a bit when I saw the title of that entry (I am not saying that this entry had illegal content). I might eve consider undeleting it under a different title. Things to keep in mind as a user on BoyWiki:

1. As I said before, the content needs to stay close to being PG13.

2. We absolutely can not have illegal content on BoyWiki or link to illegal content.

3. Posting stuff like "men fucking little boys" or anything that I find questionable or could lead to problems is going to make me do things that may be unpopular.

I am overall very fond of User4, he is very knowledgeable on many different subjects and I believe he is an asset to BoyWiki. He also has the tendency of trying to push the limits. He does this on purpose. He is not a stupid man and he knows what is crossing the line. He should have a good idea by now about what will "push my buttons" and what I will not tolerate. --Etenne (talk) 12:40, 15 May 2015 (UTC)

Herodotus

why is there an article on him? The words boy, sex, and pedo* do not appear in it. Wanker (talk) 20:26, 17 May 2015 (UTC)

That is a good question. Apparently the original user who posted that thought it was important for reason which I do not know. I am guessing it was for reference material on Ancient Greece. However my feeling on that is that these things could simply have short descriptions and be added either to Category:dictionary or perhaps a new category. I will have to think about it. --Etenne (talk) 14:00, 18 May 2015 (UTC)

Creating a semi-hidden page

Is it possible to create a page that is only visible to registered users, or to just you and me? Thanks. Wanker (talk) 11:27, 26 May 2015 (UTC)

not that I know of or know how to do. --Etenne (talk) 11:52, 26 May 2015 (UTC)

A problem - the accurate rendering/display in web pages of Chinese/Japanese characters

This is a problem for some, depending on their browser settings, etc.

Wikipedia uses several templates to advise readers of the potential problem:

For special characters in general, with a link to how to "fix" the problem of incorrectly displayed characters, the following template.

(Note: View the following in "edit" mode for it to be more legible.)

{{Side box | class = noprint selfref | text = {{#if: {{{compact|}}} | You may need [[{{{fix|Help:Special characters}}}|rendering support]] to display the {{{special|[[Help:Special characters|special characters]]}}} in this {{#if:{{{section|}}}|{{{section}}}|{{#if:{{SUBJECTSPACE}}|page|article}}}} correctly. | '''This {{#if:{{{section|}}}|{{{section}}}|{{#if:{{SUBJECTSPACE}}|page|article}}}} contains {{{special|[[Help:Special characters|special characters]]}}}.''' Without proper [[{{{fix|Help:Special characters}}}|rendering support]], you may see {{{error|[[Replacement character|question marks, boxes, or other symbols]]}}}{{#if:{{{characters|}}}| instead of {{{characters}}}}}. }} | image = {{#if:{{{image|}}} | [[File:{{{image}}}|40x40px|link={{{link|}}}|alt={{{alt|}}}]] }} | style = width: {{#if:{{{width|}}}|{{{width}}}|22em}}; | textstyle = vertical-align:middle; font-size:95%; }}<noinclude> {{documentation}} </noinclude>

For Japanese characters, the following:

{{Contains special characters | compact = {{{compact|}}} | section = {{{1|}}} | special = [[Japanese language|Japanese]] text | image = {{{image|Nihongo.svg}}} | characters = [[kanji]] and [[kana]] | fix = Help:Installing Japanese character sets }}<noinclude>{{documentation}}</noinclude>

For Chinese characters, the following:

{{Special characters | compact = {{{compact|}}} | section = {{{1|}}} | image = {{{image|Zhongwen.svg}}} | special = [[Chinese language|Chinese]] text | fix = Help:Multilingual support (East Asian) | characters = [[Chinese character]]s | width = {{{width|}}} }}<noinclude> {{documentation}} </noinclude>

For an example of a page with such advisories, see:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino-Japanese_vocabulary

For the help file providing information to readers regarding correcting problems with the display of certain foreign characters, see:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:Multilingual_support_%28East_Asian%29

As BoyWiki is now publishing a large number of articles containing Japanese and Chinese characters, these types of advisories within the pages containing such characters may now be warranted. User4 (talk) 16:06, 1 June 2015 (UTC)

Thank you so much for your helpful advice. However, I still feel incompetent to fully tackle this subject and what I really need is to find someone who is an expert in Japan (the east) the same way Edmund is an expert in Roman history or Haiduc in Greek history. I feel this is too important a part of our history and culture to leave up to me:) But I will do what I can....--Etenne (talk) 17:11, 1 June 2015 (UTC)
I see that wikipedia:Template:Side box is yet another template with an #invoke statement. Lysander (talk) 20:45, 1 June 2015 (UTC)
Are you simply pointing this out to me or are you asking that I recreate this template? --Etenne (talk) 21:16, 1 June 2015 (UTC)

Missing template

There seems to be a missing template. Notice the following"

[[BC:968755|Hope through science fiction.]] by Lupercus, on [[BoyChat]].

The "[[BC:968755| seems to refer to a template.

I gave you links to the saved "pre-crash" version of BoyWiki.

I suggest you look for the lost template there, or write a new one. User4 (talk) 23:57, 17 June 2015 (UTC)

I don't know what that was... it's not a template as a template would use { type brackets. My guess is that it was some kind of direct link to BoyChat posts that this version of BoyWiki no longer supports. It's really hard to say as I was not around back then. Was it removed intentionally? Or was it simply overlooked during the subsequent upgrades? I really can't say. --Etenne (talk) 00:57, 18 June 2015 (UTC)
Well, there are dozens -- if not hundreds -- of these types of "links" in articles. They should all be corrected. User4 (talk) 01:09, 18 June 2015 (UTC)
OK, Feel free to correct them:) --Etenne (talk) 01:16, 18 June 2015 (UTC)
No problem. I'll export all BoyWiki articles as an .XML file, fix all of those problems, which will take me maybe 20 minutes, and then you can import the corrected .XML file back into BoyWiki. OK? User4 (talk) 01:23, 18 June 2015 (UTC)
You are asking me to do something which I do not know how to do. My guess is that it would require a level of access and tech skill which I do not have. --Etenne (talk) 01:34, 18 June 2015 (UTC)
Good news! I just counted the instances of that string (in the current version of all articles -- not all previous edits done to articles) and only found 55. User4 (talk) 01:39, 18 June 2015 (UTC)

RE: martirwithacause

What did MWAC do other than to point out that he was being subjected to a campaign of harassment? And that allowing these campaigns of harassment discourages other posters?
When you say that he "pushes the rules to the limit" this is not relevant, as long as he does not cross the line and then break the rules.
The rules are very clear about certain things. MWAC has posted that he has engaged in the past in legal sexual activity with minors. This is not a violation of any of the rules. It does not endanger BoyChat in any way.
No police investigations can be brought about if someone admits that, in the past, they had had legal sex with minors. In Canada, for instance, someone several years ago could have had legal sex with a 14-year-old boy. That activity was perfectly legal. The age of consent has since been raised to 16. If someone posts about having had sex with someone under the age of 16 after the law was changed, then this violates the rules.
No one can be prosecuted for sexual activity with a 14-year-old boy which took place before the age of consent was raised to 16.
If that were the case, then tens of thousands of BoyLovers could be prosecuted. Since they cannot being prosecuted under Canadian law, then anyone describing sexual activities which took place before the age of consent was raised are clearly permitted to do so under the BoyChat rules. They can mention that they had engaged in such activities. No police investigations may be begun about what was (then) legal sexual activity.
Only sexual activity which is currently illegal under Canadian law could spark an investigation that could endanger BoyChat. MWAC having posted about his (then legal) sexual encounters with boys cannot spark an investigation of BoyChat.
But what it can spark is indignation among the VirPeds, and campaigns of harassment against MWAC. Which are clear violations of the rules.
Those who claim that MWAC is some kind of "danger" to BoyChat have never been able to point to even one single instance where anyone has been harmed by anything that MWAC has posted. When the critics are asked to do so, they never can point to any posts where MWAC has put another poster in danger.
They don't like MWAC describing his past sexual activities with boys. And that is why they make false accusations -- which they have never, and can never -- back up with links to any posts that MWAC has made that genuinely "endanger" the board or any of the posters!
If you ask the harassers for PROOF -- by their linking to a post made by MWAC that endangers any poster, or endangers the board -- they just change the subject and continue to just insist that their (false) accusations are true!
All the BoyChat posts are there to see. They cannot be hidden. MWAC is innocent of the ridiculous and absurd charges that have been leveled at him! User4 (talk) 02:40, 18 June 2015 (UTC)
I don't know how to respond to that. MWAC has some very admirable qualities. He is knowledgeable. He is intelligent. He also has quite a knack for pissing the admins off. I certainly wish him well and hope that he is spending his time in a useful endeavor and not ruminating on the injustices he may feel have been placed upon him.--Etenne (talk) 03:02, 18 June 2015 (UTC)
Uh, you don't know how to respond to someone describing how campaigns of harassment were permitted against a poster because the VirPeds are allowed to harass anyone they wish who violates the VirPeds (twisted) views on BoyLove being sexual expressed?
Don't you see what has happened to MWAC? He has been unjustly and falsely accused, and then he has been banned even though he has not violated any BoyChat rules, or endangered BoyChat, or any endangered any BoyChat posters, in any way at all?
So then you would agree that the "antis" who lie about BoyLovers should be allowed to continue to tell their lies about BoyLovers, and the BoyLovers should therefore "spend their time in useful endeavors and not ruminate on the injustices they may feel have been placed upon them"?
REALLY? User4 (talk) 03:11, 18 June 2015 (UTC)
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